940 head on 1098, some observations!

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linearaudio

940 head on 1098, some observations!

Post by linearaudio »

I have had a late factory unleaded Metro head, MG Metro manifolds and air filter, (better flowing than standard Metro, but quieter than the Moggy item), HIF38 carb, and a home brewed RC40 based exhaust system (thanks for the inspiration, Matt!) sitting around since last Autumn, but have held back fitting it as Molly is my every day car, and I was wary of comments made about poor/non running, and of course valve interference possibilities!
Last week the manifold flange on my standard issue moggy exhaust fractured, so that was the goad I needed...
Doing things in stages, so as not to introduce too many variables at once, I stripped away the original manifolds and exhaust.
To fit the Metro exhaust manifold onto the studs, I had to remove the front tappet cover with the breather tower on it, but it then fitted back on OK with adequate clearance, and this was an opportunity to seal up a long term oil seepage point!
On fitting the inlet/carb arrangement, I found the throttle cable needed lengthening by about 4" to give a good sweep, also the inner needed to be even longer to accommodate the snailcam type throttle mech on the HIF38. It was easy to re-make the cable, re-sweating the pedal end nipple onto a new bit of bicycle brake cable!
The choke cable was also too short, but as I wanted to retain the original knob, I made a simple extended mounting bracket for the carb end, and extended the inner using a section of 15 amp electrical "choc block" to splice a bit more brake cable inner on!
The custom exhaust fitted nicely, mounting from the original hangers, but it is a bit tight getting twin downpipes through the hole in the bulkhead!
She started up a treat, but needed 2 more turns on the needle jet adjuster to get some semblance of order.
Immediate impressions were smoother low speed running, and a distinct desire to keep pulling where previously she got winded! I did have to play tunes on the choke to get the mid range to accelerate smartly, but was not over-worried as I knew the next stage would alter things again.....

Next morning broke sunny again, so at 6.30AM I started stripping the standard moggy head off.
First thing to do was to centre the rockers onto the 940 head exhaust valves. I found the thick washers at each end of the rocker shaft just the right thickness (about 1/16"), and my box of assorted seat belt mounting bits yielded two more suitable 9/16" bore washers. One fitted between each exhaust rocker and adjacent pillar, inlet rockers are fine as is.
Next I wound the exhaust adjusters out a bit to avoid any possible embarrassment with block interference when initially bolting the head down...
Then a couple of thumps on the battery carrier to provide clearance for the heater valve, which sits at a different angle on the 940 head!
Next a goodly amount of protective rag around the block, and with an angle grinder I linished about 1/16" off the top of the water pump flange which sits proud of the block face and would otherwise foul on the underside of the 940 thermostat housing...
The head dropped on easily, but is tight going past the guard on the radiator top tank, so mind your fingers ( I didn't!)
The rear engine steady bracket needed a notch cut out of it to clear the new angle of the heater valve. I radiused the corner of this notch to avoid a possible stress point forming.
Once bolted down, with number 1 pot on tdc compression, I set its valve gaps. Then cautiously (plugs out for ease of turning) hand turned the engine til number 1 exhaust was fully open. Using a large screwdriver as a pry bar, I further pushed the rocker until the valve touched the block face, this was a good 1/16", note this was with no sinking mods done!
Feeling infinitely more confident, I set the remaining clearances, checking each exhaust valve similarly as I went, then replaced the plugs and turned my attention to the thermostat housing. The 940 head makes the top hose connection exit at a different angle which looks a bit ukky, but the bellows type top hose didn't seem to object! I understand that the housing from a pre 75 MGB fits at a better angle, if it is of great concern to anyone.
So the cooling system was refilled, remembering (though not at first!) to tighten the clamp on that horrid little bypass hose, and the starter pulled. She struck up a treat, immediately much more responsive when "blipped", and now goes like stink from mid range (55MPHish) upwards, wanting to carry on well past the end of the speedo, though as I still have to juggle the choke to get her there, I am not going to pursue that too much until she has been set up on the dyno. Spirited acceleration leaves the clutch trying to catch up with the engine when changing from 2nd to 3rd, so I estimate considerably more than a~7BHP increase already! Indeed the Holy Vizard et al seem to infer that a good 5BHP can be expected just by unstifling the exhaust so I might anticipate nearer a 12-15BHP increase when all is set up. I will let you know in time!
Note I am using a standard 998 Metro needle, opinion seems to point to an AAA being close to what you need which would presumably avoid the choke juggling act, but I will leave that to my dyno A-series expert!
A full 220mile tank check shows comparable fuel consumption to my previous records, which considering the silly way I have been using the thing and my natural pessimistic stance gives hope for a win-win situation when all is sorted out!

I hope the above is of help to anyone considering these or similar mods.

PLEASE DO CHECK your anticipated exhaust valve lift using measurements from your existing set up as, although mine went fine, others have had to do some pocketing. Then bolt the 940 head down without all the ancillaries, (but not torqueing down) to set your mind at rest (or not) about your actual clearance, that way if you need to do any pocketing, you can re-use the head gasket. Torqueing down will only account for a small reduction in gasket height, say .008"/.010", so should not be too significant in your calculations.

Now, can someone give me similar details on fitting a Marina box onto the engine :-?
bmcecosse
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Post by bmcecosse »

Well done LA - it is the BEST value for money conversion you can do on a 1098! The AAA needle is ideal - I suggest you get one - meantime do a plug check to make sure you are not running horribly weak. And set the exhaust valve gaps to 18 thou - just to make sure they don't close up when HOT. !
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linearaudio

Post by linearaudio »

bmcecosse wrote:Well done LA - it is the BEST value for money conversion you can do on a 1098! The AAA needle is ideal - I suggest you get one - meantime do a plug check to make sure you are not running horribly weak. And set the exhaust valve gaps to 18 thou - just to make sure they don't close up when HOT. !
Yep- I want a new jet as well so I know where I am starting from. Any suggestions where is a good place to go? Burlen want to know carb spec de dah de dah, that tag fell off somewhere over winter!!
Plugs look lovely so far!

Now come on- constructive comments about the Marina box, someone!!
rayofleamington
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Post by rayofleamington »

The 940 head makes the top hose connection exit at a different angle which looks a bit ukky, but the bellows type top hose didn't seem to object! I understand that the housing from a pre 75 MGB fits at a better angle, if it is of great concern to anyone.
Also B-series marina (1.8 ) stat housing.

Marina box - you'd be better off with a 5 speed!
Ray. MMOC#47368. Forum moderator.

Jan 06: The Minor SII Africa adventure: http://www.minor-detour.com
Oct 06: back from Dresden with my Trabant 601 Kombi
Jan 07: back from a month thru North Africa (via Timbuktu) in a S3 Landy
June 07 - back from Zwickau Trabi Treffen
Aug 07 & Aug 08 - back from the Lands End to Orkney in 71 pickup
Sept 2010 - finally gave up breaking down in a SII Landy...
where to break down next?
2013... managed to seize my 1275 just by driving it round the block :(
bmcecosse
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Post by bmcecosse »

I wouldn't bother with a new jet - unlikely to be that badly worn - and means dis-assembling the carb - best left well alone. If the plugs are 'lovely' - maybe the needle you have is ideal! Any idea what code is on the needle ?
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bmcecosse
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Post by bmcecosse »

You comment on the power - consider that the 1071 Cooper S engine had 70 bhp - same camshaft timing, twin 1 1/4" SUs on ghastly manifold, similar head but with slightly larger inlets and exhausts and 3 branch exhaust. The bore is bigger and the stroke shorter - but that only allows it to rev more when more highly modified - in standard form it had that 70 bhp at modest revs - ceratinly within reach of a 1098 engine, and so they can both be considered to be pumping similar amounts of air! So - since the single HIF 38 on decent manifold is considered to be superior to twin SUs on hopeless manifold - I would say it's not unreasonable to expect 60 bhp from this engine, maybe even 65.
Way back - my mate's father had a 1071 S - and he (somehow!) broke the crankshaft. My mate substitued a dead standard 1098 block/crank assembly - used the head/carbs/exhaust from the S - and said the car went FAR better than before! It was certainly more than capable of towing his racing Mini about on a trailer - without shall I say 'holding up the traffic'!
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linearaudio

Post by linearaudio »

rayofleamington wrote:
Marina box - you'd be better off with a 5 speed!
I fear you do not appreciate my relationship with "Molly"! She would be mighty offended if I were to chuck a lump of "Dag'num dustbin" in her drivetrain!

As I have said before, what makes most sense and what feels right are not necessarily the same thing, but I do appreciate your comment :wink:
rayofleamington
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Post by rayofleamington »

I don't know details of the Marina box, but if the marina box has same top ratio to Minor (1:1 ??) , then you're not gaining much at all.
You could use use a 3.9 (or 3.7) diff - main road speeds become effortless and mpg improved, although accelleration and hill performance reduced.

The Ford (Type 9) 5 speed has 4th gear similar to a 1098 top gear, making 5th gear like a good overdrive.
Ray. MMOC#47368. Forum moderator.

Jan 06: The Minor SII Africa adventure: http://www.minor-detour.com
Oct 06: back from Dresden with my Trabant 601 Kombi
Jan 07: back from a month thru North Africa (via Timbuktu) in a S3 Landy
June 07 - back from Zwickau Trabi Treffen
Aug 07 & Aug 08 - back from the Lands End to Orkney in 71 pickup
Sept 2010 - finally gave up breaking down in a SII Landy...
where to break down next?
2013... managed to seize my 1275 just by driving it round the block :(
linearaudio

Post by linearaudio »

rayofleamington wrote:I don't know details of the Marina box, but if the marina box has same top ratio to Minor (1:1 ??) , then you're not gaining much at all.
You could use use a 3.9 (or 3.7) diff - main road speeds become effortless and mpg improved, although accelleration and hill performance reduced.

The Ford (Type 9) 5 speed has 4th gear similar to a 1098 top gear, making 5th gear like a good overdrive.
Agreed, older gearboxes were 1:1 in 4th gear, 5th being tacked on the end, so just using a Marina box wouldn't gain much other than different intermediate ratios. The attraction to me is the overdrive mod, which I feel is more in keeping with a 47 year old gal than a "modern" 5 speed box. Excuse me while I slip into my strait jacket..... :wink:
rayofleamington
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Post by rayofleamington »

Agreed, older gearboxes were 1:1 in 4th gear, 5th being tacked on the end, so just using a Marina box wouldn't gain much other than different intermediate ratios. The attraction to me is the overdrive mod, which I feel is more in keeping with a 47 year old gal than a "modern" 5 speed box. Excuse me while I slip into my strait jacket.....
I'm led to believe the Marina box heritage is from Triumph, however I've never looked into that in any detail so please don't take it as gospel.
Marina box + o/d has been done (but is probably more rare than any other box upgrade on a minor) - might be best to troll the Triumph forums for donor bits.

A 5 speed box isn't exactly modern... I've come across a few people who want to keep to period British parts for upgrades, but generally only to keep in an easier class when doing historic hillclimbing!


BTW - my first Minor was nearly identical spec to yours - although my pipe was more 3" dia Rally Escort bodged up to meet a marina downpipe and exiting under pasenger door.
It really flew but I ended up with a standard exhaust to get through the MOT, as they failed it for being "too nosiey".

The garage ripped me off for the few MOT repairs needed so that was the first and last time I let a garage work on a Minor for me! I think it's my anniversary next month - 20 years since I got my first Minor project on the road!
Ray. MMOC#47368. Forum moderator.

Jan 06: The Minor SII Africa adventure: http://www.minor-detour.com
Oct 06: back from Dresden with my Trabant 601 Kombi
Jan 07: back from a month thru North Africa (via Timbuktu) in a S3 Landy
June 07 - back from Zwickau Trabi Treffen
Aug 07 & Aug 08 - back from the Lands End to Orkney in 71 pickup
Sept 2010 - finally gave up breaking down in a SII Landy...
where to break down next?
2013... managed to seize my 1275 just by driving it round the block :(
linearaudio

Post by linearaudio »

A 5 speed box isn't exactly modern... [/quote]

Hence my inverted commas!

I beleive, incidently, that more "modern" still 5 speed boxes use 1:1 on 5th gear as this is the most efficient ratio regarding gear losses, but that is another thing!

With charliemorrisminors help and a very handy local BMC yard, I have no worries at all about the sourcing/ doing, other than the niggly bits( see my other thread).
Given the price of a 5 speed bellhousing, against £40 for an overdrive box, (the type 9 box price cancelling out the extra cost of a Marina box..), I am happy to be going down this route, and Molly will also be happy!

Now I see this topic has "wandered" from 940 head... just like my earlier topic!! But please,PLEASE... I am fine with the idea of gearbox mods, it is only the niggly bits, interferences etc that I would like to know about! ( no offence ever intended by my comments, it's all in good spirit, but I will now get back to squeezing blood from that stone :roll: )[/b]
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