Fuel pump / Starting issues

Post by **minorcab** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:40 pm

I have a '51 Morris Minor / Tourer that's been standing around for almost 7 years and (naturally) I'm having troubles getting the engine running after these years.

When I turn the ignition, the fuel pump starts making this fairly loud ticking noise, which you can hear for yourselves here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4CO9x93FmI I've read that these pumps should produce some kind of ticking when functioning properly, but is the noise in my case normal?

Anyway, when I pull the start switch, the starter motor seems to be working fine, but it doesn't get the engine going. I understand that the engine won't fire if the fuel pump is not working. However, if that is not the case, what should I look for to investigate the problem further? (btw later today I will check that there is spark at the plugs)

As you probably can tell, I'm not that familiar with autos and mechanics, but I hope you guys could give me a few clues here. I'm basically just trying to learn some by doing this myself rather than have someone fix it right away.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:47 pm

Is there any petrol for the pump to pump ? It will need to be NEW petrol - not seven years old treacle !
To get it going - pour an egg cup or two of new petrol down the carb inlet - and crank it!

Post by **ASL642** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:49 pm

If the pumps ticking it's working,but may need it's points cleaning. Take it apart and carefully clean these with fine sandpaper.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:51 pm

If it's ticking - it doesn't points cleaning!!

Post by **minorcab** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:59 pm

Thanks for the quick replies. bmcecosse: I've recently added 5L of new petrol to the tank, so there should be something there for the pump to pump.

Post by **mike.perry** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:34 pm

Before you start blaming the petrol pump check that you have a spark at the plugs. If so then you can unscrew the nut holding the float chamber lid on and fill the chamber with nice clean fresh petrol. Replace the lid and try starting it, remembering that old cars have choke control knobs. Not trying to be insulting but in this game you sometimes have to state the obvious, just in case.
Could you please let me have the chassis no. and other details so that I can add it to the Series MM Register,
Thanks

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:47 pm

Hmm - adding 5 litresd of petrol to the tank may just have stirred up the £$&% that was in there! Try the direct fuel approach - it usually works !

Post by **Peetee** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:53 pm

Please have someone operate the ignition whilst you check under the bonnet for fuel leaks. There could be any number of areas allowing fuel to spray on the engine and exhaust.

I would also suggest that putting more fuel in the tank may not have been the best move

.
It will almost certainly be full of rust and silt and you might find the problem is just down to a sludged up fuel line. When my car was removed from it's 20 year lay up I removed a whole jam jar full of rust sludge from the tank

Post by **David53** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:43 am

Having listened to your pump on YouTube it is working fine - but it is sucking air. I had the same problem, which was traced to the fuel tank being rusted and not sealing around the pipe which carries the fuel to the pump. So the pump clicks madly away trying suck up petrol but is just sucking air. Check your tank and the pipe, especially where the pipe joins the tank

Post by **DAVIDMCCULLOUGH** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:12 am

I would remove one end of the flexible fuel pipe going from the carb to the petrol pump, sometimes this is enough to cure an air block and the petrol may come through. ( have a jar handy to catch it in case it does!!) Another idea is to blow as hard as you can down the fuel filler, again may get things moving. If you have no luck try blowing from the pump end as well, you should hear air bubbles rising in the tank. Old petrol can harden in the pipe and you may need a new one.

Post by **minorcab** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:43 pm

Thanks for all tips regardig the fuel problem! There's no fuel reaching the fuel pump so I'm quite certain the fuel pipe between the pump and tank is clogged up because of rust and slug in the tank like some of you have mentioned.

However, I've been wanting to try the direct fuel approach before dealing with the fuel problem. But of course there are problems here as well. =) There's no spark at the plugs, and also when I hold a screwdriver at the connector that connects to the plugs and hold it close (1 - 2 mm) to ground there is no visible arc. I suspect bad contact in the distributor, so I guess I just have to look for points and contacts to clean..
Is there any good fool-proof ways to test that the distributor is working well and that sufficient current reaches the plugs? I'm not really sure of good methods to troubleshoot these issues and work my way from the plugs to whatever causes the problem.

Post by **David53** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:21 am

No spark at all suggests could also be a problem with the coil not delivering power to the dizzy. As a quick check clean all the contacts on the leads from the coil to the dizzy, give it a squirt of WD40 inside the cap, clean the rotor arm, check the points aren't stuck together etc. Also check Fuse. Good luck! Check spark by holding plug 1 lead with a pair of grips 1/2 and inch from the block while you press the starter button under the bonnet (with ignition key on)

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:24 am

Probably just needs the points cleaning - then test by leaving a plug connected - but not screwed into the engine - leave it lying on the block and watch for spark as you crank the engine.

Post by **kennatt** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:56 am

check the coil by pulling the ht lead off the distributor,with the ignition on hold the end near to the block and then flick the points open with a plastic pen or wooden probe you should get strong loud crack as the spark arcs from the ht lead to the block if non or very week then the coil is suspect

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:18 am

Or more likely the condenser! Coils very very rarely fail - they get much blame - but it's rarely justified!

Post by **alex_holden** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:04 pm

bmcecosse wrote:Coils very very rarely fail - they get much blame - but it's rarely justified!

Happened to me twice recently. The second one had only been fitted for a couple of weeks before a wire broke internally.

Post by **minorcab** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:16 pm

As far as I can tell the points look ok, and it seems they aren't sticking or anything (opens and closes nicely as the distributor shaft rotates). When I held the ht output lead from the coil close to the block and flicked open the points with a wooden stick I did hear some cracks, but it was definitely not from the ht lead, more like between the points (no visible arc though). I suppose it could suggest a bad condenser. That being said, however, I don't see why either the condenser or the coil should just stop functioning properly from just standing there some years without being in use..

This car is really starting to bug me.

Post by **8009STEVE** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:41 pm

Where are you in the world?

Post by **bmcecosse** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:24 pm

Condensers can fail that way - coil would be expected to survive !

Post by **minorcab** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:56 am

8009STEVE wrote:Where are you in the world?

Located in the middle of Norway. It gets cold and wet around here, especially during winter, but the car has been standing dry.