Seized in the carpark!

[rayofleamington]

It's rather a suprise to come out of work and find your Moggy's solenoid go 'CLICK' but nothing else happens.

The dashboard lighs stayed on but dimmed a bit so the battery seemed normal.
I did the obvious thing and rock the car in gear to see if that would help.
Unfortunately the engine would not budge, but my face did turn a nice shade of red.
It felt rather embarrassing to get stuck in the carpark at an automotive design centre so I persevered. With my (considerable?) weight behind it I rocked the car in 4th and it eventually gave way with a clunk.
That was 2 weeks / 200 miles ago and since then it's been fine.

Well it's fine as in the engine was already well worn and has the usual rattle like 50 hammer drills when it gets hot but it still goes fine. I did overheat it a few months ago when it was first back on the road (having overlooked that the dizzy clamp bolt was loose - points opening when they should have been closing! ). The water boiled off on the M1 and the engine eventually let me know by cutting out completely. 20 minutes and 2 gallons later it was back to normal, and I carried on gingerly.


Has anyone else had an engine seize like this when parked up after a short journey?
Is there anything special I should do??
(Apart from cross my fingers + give it an oil change)

[ColinP]

Dear Ray,

Sounds a lot like the starter motor pinion was jammed in the ring gear on the flywheel. The pinion should engage as the starter motor starts to turn (I don't think any Minor has a pre-engaged starter), and when the engine fires the pinion should spin back along the thread of the starter motor shaft.

There are two other ways of disenganging a stuck pinion:
1) Spanner on the square nut on the end of the starter motor
2) Starting Handle (?) - just to turn the engine - no electrics on

If it's been working since then it may be just a damaged tooth (pinion or ring gear (ouch )) or maybe just a bit of road grit which has cleared.

Colin

[Cam]

Ray,

I too have had this problem.

Exactly the same symptoms, just a click when parked up outside B&Q after a run of about 20 miles.

I tried rocking the car but it did not work first time.

Also, I did not have any spanners with me so I could not turn the square drive on the back of the starter motor and I have not put the starting handle dog on my 1380 ital engine so I can't use the starting handle.

I freed it by bump starting it (but without the ignition switched on).

The engine had only done about 4000 miles and I assembled the flywheel and starter motor myself, so I know that the teeth were in good condition and should not have significantly worn or broken within 4000 miles!!

It would be interesting to know what causes this, maybe road grit like Colin suggests jamming the starter pinion forward.

[rayofleamington]

I'm pretty sure it was not the starter - I could hear it moving, although it couldn't budge the engine.
And I don't think the starting handle would have shifted it - It took me a lot of effort in 4th gear, Roughly equivalent to a few people standing on the starting handle??

I guess I'll ignore it for now as the petrol pump is higher on my priority list - it stopped 7 times today until my battery was flat from all the re-starts.

[Willie]

You say you "don't think the starting handle would have
shifted it" so you didn't actually try it?? I suggest that you do
try it next time this happens. An engine which siezes will
usually do it when running and HOT, not when you have
stopped and parked.
Willie

[rayofleamington]

About ten years ago a similar thing happened to a friend and between the 2 of us it bent the starting handle before the engine moved!
That one was freed of in the same way as mine, by rocking it in gear as it'll try to move the engine both ways.
If I ever see something similar I'll have a good look at the square drive on the starter to make 100% sure - I presume it would not move if that was the cause?

Anyway since then I've been trying to get my petrol pump sorted - It even played up after I put new points on but after a bit of wet and dry seems to be working fine..... Famous last words
Lets see if she gets to the 3 counties without any time on the hard shoulder

[Willie]

Yes, the square drive WILL turn if there is a jam,but only
clockwise(looking from the front) with the help of a suitable spanner as this will relieve
the lock up. Most points have a coating on them to protect
the surface when new, perhaps your wet and dry merely
removed this? The same need for a clean applies to ignition
points.
Willie

[rayofleamington]

Thanks for the tip Willie - I'll remember that when I get round to fitting my new points in the dizzy.
It sounds obvious now but it had me pulling my hair out to start with. I drove 5 miles after fitting the pump points and it was fine, but lo and behold it stalled every 400 metres the next morning on my short journey to work.
Anyway we made it to 3 counties and back today without stopping so that one is put to bed.

[Kevin]

With reference to Cams earlier reply, I assume that when you rebuilt and reassembled it all that you did not lubricate the bendix shaft on the starter as this will pick up every bit of dirt around and will cause the bendix to stick, the shaft should always be nice and clean and if you do need to lubricate use good old graphite, just use a HB pencil and rub it on to the shaft. This is often overlooked and I know of a few times when a starter has been replaced and started to play up and on removal the shaft has a nice coat of oil on ( complete with an assortment of dirt particles ) it because the owner thought that it should be lubricated .

Regards

Kevin

[Cam]

Kevin,

Errr......well......no I did not lubricate it!!

I tried it first and it seemed quite free.

Thanks for the pencil tip though!!! (pun intended! )