Engines and gearboxes

Post by **maverick** » Mon May 04, 2009 10:19 pm

I have been scouring the web looking at engines as i would have liked a good amont of power in the minor. I just wanted to know what engines people have put in and with what gearbox and rear axle, that are not to expensive and relatively easy to fit. I have seen a vauxhall manta engine and gearbox aswell as the toyota 16 and 20v. i think the zetec and kent are to expensive. Does anyone no about the Ca18det from a nissan silvia?? also if i put in something like a vauxhall c20let or c20xe what gearbox and axle woud i have to use??? im a bit of a newbie and dont have a wide range of knowledge like you kind people.
Any help is appreciated, thanks

Post by **superchargedfool** » Tue May 05, 2009 12:04 pm

hiya

I am running a type 9 box and escort mk2 axle. These are fairly common under modded minors now.

As for engines. The limiting factor is the short length of the minor engine bay. The bulkhead strengthener can be notched though to place the engine further back. Trouble is that puts the steering rack close to the gearbox bell housing.

Basically you need a short engine.

Post by **downsey** » Tue May 05, 2009 9:31 pm

the ca18det is quite a bit longer than the 4age and zetec. It was a tight squeeze in my buddies mgb. The 4age 20v is a pretty good motor- the blacktop puts out 170 hp. Only problem is the distributor comes out the back of the head, the solution being coil packs.

A great motor is the 4agze. It uses the 16 valve head but comes supercharged and with forged pistons. Stock is about 150hp but a lot of torque. Many people ditch the blower and turbocharge it, with which 200 hp is easily attainable. One 4agte made 550hp on stock internals. The w58 and the t-50 transmissions bolt right up to it.

If you have an early morris minor with the 4inch pcd wheel pattern, then a good rear end is the mgb axle. Many guys have run 302's in there mgbs with no problems. Another good rear end is the corolla sr5 or if your lucky the corolla gts rear end as these are posi and come with disc brakes.

Post by **jonathon** » Tue May 05, 2009 9:43 pm

Any injected engine will cost serious money, which is why the old Fiat TC was such good value. Brand new Zetecs can be bought for £650-750 inc clutch,injection, etc, to convert to carbs would be the cheapest option but then you are missing the benefits of injection.
The Toyota motors are brill too, even in std form, but again these are injected so will not be cheap.

Post by **downsey** » Wed May 06, 2009 4:31 am

What kind of performance do you see from zetecs converted to run on carbies Jonathon? Would be pretty sweet to see one running on motorcycle carbs- 1 per cylinder.

Post by **maverick** » Sun May 10, 2009 7:51 pm

After all your advice i think i have decided on the 4age 16v. It seems highly praised and reliable. T-50 gearboxes seem quite rare when looking on the net. What cars did the w58 come in? Hopefully get an escort axle aswell. Is fitting the 4age quite stright forward. Would i need to buy any bits other than engine and ancillaries. What about ecu?
looking at tuning. dont really no what to do other than new camshafts. any ideas?
Thanks for all your help

Post by **jonathon** » Sun May 10, 2009 8:03 pm

Zetecs on carbs produce similar power to injection but loose out on economy and torque, the further you deveplop the greater the difference. Plus with full mapping you can achieve a more finely tuned product.
ECU for Toyota go aftermarket (Omex) for best results

Post by **downsey** » Sun May 10, 2009 8:14 pm

Hey Maverick, the 4age makes for a pretty cool and reliable engine in the morris- i think you made a good choice.

Fitting the 4age is pretty straightforward, although like all EFI engine conversions, it requires a good deal of work. The nice thing about this conversion is that the body does not to be cut anywhere.

The t-50 transmissions are pretty rare and quite expensive. I was lucky to find one in a junkyard on half off day. The w-58 tranny does bolt directly up to 4age, but the size of it will prove to cause a lot of issues in the floor section. Most people only upgrade to the w-58 when theyre putting down over 200hp in a car that weighs substanially more than a minor. I would keep my eyes open for a t-50 on ebay. (for what its worth the w-58 came in the celica-supras)

Your best bet would be to either buy an entire car or buy an engine off ebay. Both options will prove to be about the same in price. If you choose to use ebay, make sure it comes with EVERYTHING you need to run it. All the ancillaries, wiring, and ecu. I would also look for a smallport 16v as this uses a MAP sensor instead of an airflow meter, does not come with T-VIS, and makes more power stock than the bigport. (smallport makes 124 stock)

As far as the conversion goes, youll need to fabricate motor mounts, transmission mounts, clutch linkage, a new alternator mount, new radiator, electric fan, exhaust, driveshaft, etc. etc. Furthermore, a lot of time will be spent researching the fuel injection system and finding out what you need to run it and what you dont need. Off the top of my head you dont need the EGR, catalytic converter, charcoal canister, air auxiliary valve, one of the coolant sensors, and the throttle body coolant lines.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Sun May 10, 2009 9:02 pm

if you are going down the 4age route the readily available ford type 9 gearbox can be mated to it using a bellhousing available from many kit car manufacturers.

Post by **maverick** » Sun May 10, 2009 11:12 pm

Thanks for all your help Downsey and yes i will probably have more questions thanks for offering

and thanks for that Charlie. that would be alot more do-able than the t50 i would have thought. I dont suppose you know which kit car manufacturers it is available from do you?

Post by **d_harris** » Sun May 10, 2009 11:57 pm

Does the T50 bolt straight to the 4age?

What cars had the 4age in?

Post by **downsey** » Mon May 11, 2009 12:05 am

The 4age came in:

1985-1989 toyota mr2
The Corolla Ae86 GTS (rwd and came with the t-50)
Corolla Ae82(FWD, Bigport)
Corolla Ae92 (FWD, smallport)
1988 Chevrolet Nova (only some came with it)
1990-92 Geo Prism GSi (smallport and came with map sensor)

The t-50 bolts straight up to the 4age and it came in almost all small toyotas of the 1980s. If you find one mated to a 3a engine you know its in good shape as those motors only made around 70hp.

Post by **d_harris** » Mon May 11, 2009 7:45 pm

On a scale of one, to a royal pain in the bum how easy is a 4age fit?

Looks like with some careful looking I can get one pretty cheap.....

Post by **downsey** » Mon May 11, 2009 9:04 pm

Well its a lot more involved than, say, a fiat twin cam conversion. The fuel injection complicates things somewhat. One thing forgot to add was that you'll need a high pressure low volume pump as well as running new fuel lines. The stock morris feed can be used as a return and a new 5/16" feed line run.

Post by **jonathon** » Mon May 11, 2009 9:54 pm

Ideally a tank with integral swirl pot or external pot, plus a Lambda sensor for accurate mapping.
Striker sell used Toyota motors with either Toyota or Ford gearboxes, their prices seem pretty good too.
Don't forget your suspension,axle and braking mods too.

Post by **maverick** » Tue May 12, 2009 11:39 am

Jonathon
just did a quick search for striker but cant seem to find them.
Do you know the website or have a link?
Thanks

Post by **superchargedfool** » Tue May 12, 2009 12:10 pm

stryker

Post by **jonathon** » Tue May 12, 2009 12:12 pm

Dohh ! it was past my bedtime

Post by **maverick** » Wed May 13, 2009 12:02 pm

Still cant find anything

Post by **carlt** » Wed May 13, 2009 6:31 pm

striker is the name of the car
look here : http://web.mac.com/rawuk/iWeb/Raw/Home.html