Broken down...

Post by **stephenpolhill** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:05 pm

I took the Moggie out with my Mum yesterday at about 6 to pick things up and when I got to the car park to drop my sister off at swimming, the car died and wouldn't restart. We pushed her into a parking bay and I noticed the choke was out so left it for 30 mins. After it not starting again we called the RAC. Another 30 mins and she started up after a few goes all be it with the revs having to be held up. We drove towards home and a quarter of a mile away at a crossing I was slowing down for, she died again and didn't restart. Fortunately we were just outside the 1/4 mile callout limit for the RAC Breakdown so called them out again.

After a very funny, but boring hour, the man came. After checks he found that one of the spark plugs was firing irregularly so cleaned the cap out. It wouldn't start so he checked the air filter and replaced it and yes, she started and ran perfectly.

He couldn't pinpoint the problem but said leaving the choke out for any distance could be it. I did that because our other classic requires the choke until it has warmed up (although it's engine is 4x bigger).

Has anyone else had this problem and do you think it would be safe to go out in it soon?
She is booked into the garage (maybe a way of telling me she doesn't want to go back?) so they will check her over for any other problems (wobbly wheel and brakes).
Thanks
Steve

Post by **bmcecosse** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:23 pm

Well - it could have been flooded, although you did get it going for a while so should have been ok after that. I'm amazed the RAC man could 'replace' your air filter! Or did he just take it out ? If it was completely choked with oil/dust then it would certainly have affected the performance - but should not have stopped it starting - if you see what I mean ! Most likely fault would be fuel pump - did he check for fuel at the carb ? Next time - if it stops - give the fuel pump a bang with something solid (starting handle would do) and if clicks away frantically - there's the problem. Otherwise - look to the ignition system, points/condenser/rotor arm/dizzy cap. Good idea to renew them ALL anyway - then you know you are starting (!) from a good base of new parts.

Post by **mike.perry** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:43 pm

I would recommend that you change one item at a time and start the engine after each change. This will check that you have installed each new component correctly and that the new component is not faulty, it can happen.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:58 pm

It certainly can - good advice there!

Post by **stephenpolhill** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:13 pm

We thought it was flooding but he said that the time you wait shouldn't affect it too much and for over a hour it doesn't de-flood then it can't be the problem.
As for the air filter, he took it out and had a look in to see for the crud and it was fine. Then as I said he replaced it and it started :S.
The fuel pump is 2 months old from when the car was being repaired and i did tap/whack it with the starter handle and it seemed ok although not a regular ticking but it hasn't ever been a regular ticking from the pump.
As for the ignition system - I aint going there, I am not that familiar with it so will let the garage sort that bit out. Most of the odd parts like pump, exhaust etc is new in the engine.

I started her up today and she has gone back to being strange. Kicking out puffs of black smoke (like a modern diesel, not heavy but still black) when I press the acclerator, choke or not. It also dies when the choke is put back in and it just doesn't seem or sound right. I will attempt changing the suspected dodgy spark plug to see what happens but apart from that, I will leave it for the garage to sort out.
Thanks for the advice and I will pass your mentioned possible problems on to them so they can check them thoroughly. Greatly appreciated.
Steve

Post by **bmcecosse** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:14 pm

If you don't get 'stuck in' - you will never learn! First check then (since pump is ok) - is the piston in the carb nice and free? Should rise easily with finger pressure and fall back with a clunk. Add some thin oil (3 in 1) to the dashpot - by unscrewing the black 'nut' and lifting away the little damper mech. Add oil - refit damper. Also worth checking if the choke is going off completely - or maybe sticking on ?

Post by **PSL184** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:17 pm

Yes, very much sounds like the symptoms of a sticking carb piston...

Post by **mike.perry** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:50 pm

As BMC says, remove the air filter, stick your finger in the hole and lift the piston. If it doesn't drop with an audible clunk then there is your problem. Check the 3 screws holding the carb dash pot down are all equally tight. If that doesn't fix it then things get a little more complicated. Call back when you have tried that.

Post by **katiekat** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:13 pm

You should try and change the dizzy cap etc. as stated above. I did it on mine so anyone can do it! It's not difficult if you follow instructions from mmoc members.

Go on, have a try!

Good luck!

Kate

Post by **alainmoran** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:37 pm

IMO, from the symptoms this problem is fuel related ... strip & rebuild the carb, set the timing and re-tune.

Post by **stephenpolhill** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:31 pm

Well, Dad and I had a look at all the suggested problem areas, some that he thought could cause it and also those suggested by my uncle who knows quite a bit about classics too. We did manage after a long turn of the key to get it started but when the accelerator was pushed, the engine sounded like a VW Bug (bubbling). I took it for a small drive down the road and under full acceleration, it made this noise but still had good power. After Dad took it out it came back running smooth and lasted a couple of minutes before dieing and we haven't had it started from there.
We tinkered this morning too and nothing so towed it to the garage where they will look at it. I will let you know when (or rather if) it comes back and what they thought the problem was.
I just want to thank everyone who suggested any solutions for the problem - we tried them but nothing. Just can't get why it starts, is fine then doesn't start again. Hopefully the garage can sort it.

Steve

Post by **mike.perry** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:00 pm

Electrical components such as the coil and condenser can fail when they get hot then work when they cool down. The fuel pump can work intermittently and the carb could have dirt in it.

Post by **Pyoor_Kate** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:31 am

Another good one is the small wire inside the distributor - if the insulation fails on that you can get a car that runs perfectly, some of the time, but dies intermittently and completely.

I had that. It was before I was doing work myself and I had the pleasure of being recovered back to the garage that had 'restored' her after breaking down 3 times, I think, in one trip. :-/

Post by **stephenpolhill** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:16 pm

Mike - It wouldn't start even from cold and at the time it did start, we had been trying to start it for a while. Weird I know. We didn't take the carb apart but it looked clean from what I could see, maybe inside if there is some.
Kate - Sounds exactly the problem I had. Unfortunately, I can't check that as the car is the garage now. We thought another problem could be the coil but as we only had a coil for the Jag and that wasn't the right end, we couldn't test it out. I suppose they will have a look at all possible things. I just hope she hasn't driven her last few miles and given up completely.
Thanks again

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:20 pm

Was the carb piston moving ok ? Did you add some oil to it ?

Post by **stephenpolhill** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:23 pm

Yes it was. I pushed it up with a small amount of force with a finger and it came down again with a slight bit of resistance, but it wasn't catching or anything. Added some oil in anyway and stayed the same.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:42 pm

Oh well - that's how it should be ! Maybe blown head gasket ? Did you sort out the spark plugs - could just be a fouled plug after running with choke out for too long. That would maybe explain why it cleared for a short while after a run - and then lapsed back to 3. However - it should still have started ok on 3.

Post by **stephenpolhill** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:45 pm

I hope not! And we checked them a few times and cleaned but seemed ok. Its just frustrating. I would prefer it if we knew the problem and couldn't sort it out. Not looking forward to the bill either.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:50 pm

Best to have a spare set of plugs and carry a spark plug socket at all times. The fact it 'cleared' does suggest nothing too serious. I would pop in a new set of plugs - 'cleaning' doesn't always work, and they should NOT be wire brushed!
Compression test would be useful too. Did you look at/check the valve gaps ?

Post by **stephenpolhill** » Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:52 pm

I am going to carry a whole engine soon! I know I need a small repair kit with spare plugs though. And I hope the garage try that. I might ask them to try that first to save my man hours bill.

.
We did use a wire brush so I will tell Dad that bit of advice. Any reason why you shouldn't?