Help! Starting problem!

Post by **katiekat** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:24 pm

Can anyone describe how to solve starting problems?

I'm a complete novice and can't get my moggy to start.

I replaced the distibutor cap, rotor arm and HT leads due to an initial misfire but now she won't start at all. She had been standing for a year before I got her a week ago.

I managed to get her started the other day after lots of trying but I did notice that the coil was getting hot.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated!

Thanks!

Post by **PSL184** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:39 pm

For the engine to run you need fuel, compression and a spark (in the correct place). Did you check your plug leads for the correct firing order as per your other thread. It won't fire if these are in the wrong order. The timing could be off. Also on the other thread it was explained how to set this to a nominal start point. Make sure these are correct first. If you are totally lost then someone in your area might be able to pop over and help. I would but you are a bit too far away unfortunately.

Post by **katiekat** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:49 pm

I tried all combinations with the leads using the 1 3 4 2 firing order but it didn't work. I didn't understand the nominal starting point bit!

I'm a bit thick when it comes to mechanics!

Thanks for the advice. Maybe I need to do a course. I do get lost easily and do things wrong, but I'm keen to learn!

Post by **mike.perry** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:48 pm

Set the approx. timing by lining up the marker on the crankshaft with the TCD pointer on the timing cover. This will give you cyl. 1 or 4 at TCD. You need 1 at TCD so remove the rocker box cover and rotate the crankshaft until both valves on no.1 cyl. are closed and the marker and pointer are lined up.
Next rotate the distributor so that the points on no.1 cyl. are just opening. The rotor arm should be pointing to about 2 o'clock position. You may be able to set the position using the vernier adjuster or you may need to slacken the bolts off and turn the distributor by hand. Check that when you turn the rotor arm in the direction of the arrow that the points are opening not closing.

Post by **GeoffC** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:08 pm

katiekat wrote:I tried all combinations with the leads using the 1 3 4 2 firing order but it didn't work.

Did you connect them in the right direction? The rotor arm turns anti-clockwise as you look at it. If you connect them going clockwise, you end up with a firing order of 1-2-4-3

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:09 pm

Which obviously doesn't work!

Post by **GeoffC** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:14 pm

...except on a Ford!

Post by **LouiseM** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:19 am

Set the approx. timing by lining up the marker on the crankshaft with the TCD pointer on the timing cover. This will give you cyl. 1 or 4 at TCD. You need 1 at TCD so remove the rocker box cover and rotate the crankshaft until both valves on no.1 cyl. are closed and the marker and pointer are lined up.
You may be able to set the position using the vernier adjuster

I suspect the above explanation might be a bit confusing to understand for a complete novice

Katiekat - Get yourself a workshop manual and have a look at the pictures to familiarise yourself with what's under the bonnet. Most parts of the car are easy to work on yourself once you know where everything is and have the right tools. I didn't have a clue about cars when I got my first Minor but over the years have changed points, condensors, coils, radiators, starter motors and water pumps. If I can do it anyone can - you just need to take things slowly and build up your confidence. That said, I haven't a clue what a vernier adjuster is and I've owned Minors for 20 years

Post by **katiekat** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:04 am

Thanks for the advice!

I have some questions;
What does TCD mean?
How do I rotate the crankshaft?
What is a vernier adjuster?
Is this for the timing?

Thanks!

Post by **aupickup** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:07 am

tdc is top dead center of the piston
the vernier is the advance and retard on the dizzy
you can rotate the crankshaft with starting handle

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:18 am

If all that has been done is new dizzy cap and HT leads - that must be where the problem lies. DO NOT start moving the dizzy - or even worrying about 'timing' (why does everyone get so excited about timing ??) - just sort the immediate problem. If need be - refit the old cap and leads exactly as you took them off (always wise to take a pic of anything you are unsure of) and try that.

Post by **katiekat** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:36 am

Thanks! I'll have another try today!

Post by **Declan_Burns** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:54 am

As a novice, I marked the leads with tiny cable ties. One on no. 1, two on no. 2 etc and took digital photos of the whole arrangement showing the orientation just in case I have to work on it in the future.
Some of the best tools for working on a minor-a digital camera and a bunch of cable ties!<br>

<br>

Post by **aupickup** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:23 am

on the manifold it is stamped with the firing order

Post by **katiekat** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:08 pm

Well I've tried everything and she still won't start.

Post by **Dean** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:32 pm

Have you got a spark at the points? Remove the dizzy cap and turn on the ignition. Press the button under the bonnet that turns the engine over, you can find this by following the left hand side battery lead. Where this connects to the car there is a button you can push in. As the points rotate you should see a nice blue spark.

If there is no spark then:
- The points gap might need resetting.
- The points need cleaning or changing.
- Something is wired up wrong in the dizzy.
- Condenser has gone.
- Coil has broken or the lead from it to the cap is naff or not connected correctly.

If there is a spark, celebrate with a cup of tea.

Make sure the car is in neutral (chock front wheels to be extra safe you don't want to be squash up the garage wall if it starts!) and replace the dizzy cap. Take out each plug in turn, replace the lead and rest the plug on the engine block. Do not touch the lead and press the button again. You may need to push the plug against the block with a wooden handled screwdriver to get a good connection. The plug should spark, do this for all four plugs on their own leads.

If it the plugs spark celebrate with another cup of tea.
If it doesn't you have a problem with either.
- The distributor cap is faulty of dirty.
- The leads are naff or not connected to the cap or plug correctly (easy mistake to make)
- The plugs are naff
- The rotary arm is dirty or naff.

You may have a combination of some sparking and some not, if so and engine won't start on less than three cylinders, sometimes they do on two but the car will bounce everywhere.

If you are getting sparks on all plugs, then it is either your firing order that is wrong or you have a fuel problem.

If its a fuel problem you need to move to the other side of the car where the carb is... someone else will have to describe that bit because I haven't ventured into the fuel set up myself yet.

What I do know is if you don't hear a ticking noise on turning on the ignition it could be the fuel pump.

Post by **katiekat** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:30 pm

Thanks Dean thats a great help.

There seems to be a spark at the points but not at the plugs. The dizzy cap and leads are brand new and so is the rotor arm.

Could the plugs be to blame?

What about the coil? The coil that's on now gets really hot and can even burn your hand if you touch it.

What other parts should I replace do you think?

Post by **Dean** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:55 pm

It's not the coil as you get a spark at the points.

I guess something is faulty that you have replaced or it is the plugs.

Post by **katiekat** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 6:46 pm

I managed to get a copy of the workshop manual and it states " a further test can be made by separating the points by hand with the ignition switched on. If this is accompanied by a flash it is indicative that the condenser has failed."

I tried this and I got a flash so do I need to change the condenser?

Is it difficult?

Post by **kennatt** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 7:48 pm

Katie I replied earlier but its gone somewhere. The coil will get hot if the ignition is left on without the engine running. In simple terms the coil stores and builds up energy to fire a charge down the plug leads to create a spark at the pug tips. It holds this energy until the points open and then sends the charge down the centre(HT) lead to the distributor then down that little carbon centre connector to the rotor arm,then depending where the tip of the rotor arm is pointing down the leads to that spark plug and the next and next as the rotor moves round. If the ignition is left on without the engine running it will get very hot because it can't get rid of this energy and eventually will be damaged.The points are conected to the coil via wires and when they open it tells the coil to fire the charge. When they are closed they allow the coil to build up the charge for the next firing. Just because you have a spark at the points dosent mean that the coil is working. You need to take off the centre lead from the distributor and with insulated pliers hold it close to but not touching the engine block,with the ignition switched on,take off the distributor cap, make sure the points are closed by turning the engine at bit one way or another and with a screwdriver push the points open,just as they would if the engine was running and you should get a strong spark from the end of this lead to the block. If you do then the coil and connection down the lead is ok. Try this first and repost the result.