Has anybody thought of........

Post by **rob.hardy1** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:20 pm

I was in Charles Ware recently spending too much money and drooling over the piles of new traveller wood for sale and it dawned on me that the main problem with wood is rot. Well the way they deal with wood rot in the building industry is to use pressure treated wood. I know that getting wood parts pressure treated would be easy and cheap so why don't i hear about anybody doing it. Anybody had any experience of this?

Post by **croft** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:15 pm

I have a friend who works in a timber yard where they have a pressure vessel for treating the timber. I did once ask him about pressure treating some oak for me and he said it would be a waste of time! Something to do with density! Hardwood doesnt take in the chemical as deep as pine or other softwoods. He also said it would "lift" the grain on a hardwood? Interestingly he also said that the new pressuring treatment was nowhere near as good as the old creasote treatment! He would often see posts that farmers would bring in to match up, having been in the ground for over 30yrs, they where as sound as the day they went in! Just the same as cars I suppose! the old ones will outlast the new!!

Post by **MarkyB** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:16 am

I've wondered about this too (when I had a traveller).
The original timber was boiled in Cuprinol which is why it lasts so long.
One of the pressure treatments used now is Tanalising but this gives the wood a greenish tint but is very effective.
There is an article about it here:http://www.planeandsimple.co.uk/pages/h ... ntent_id=6
I can't see why it wouldn't work with ash, might look quite good on a green car.

Oak doesn't need treatment as it's naturally full of tanin and weathers very well anyway.

Post by **Alec** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:14 am

Hello all,

I read on the web that ash is not a good wood to select for outside use, as it doesn't weather well.
I know that the article was written with buildings in mind but it does seem that it is not the best if your car lives outside at all times? I know that ash is the traditional coachbuilding material but in that application it was internal and not really exposed to the weather.

Has anybody any knowledge on this matter?

Alec

Post by **aupickup** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:59 am

ash is very good for sectional strength compared with other woods
so smaller sections can be used
also has close grain structure

btw a lot of timber chassis cars were ash

cedar is good for external use but is very soft , and dents easily also would need to use slightly larger sections

Post by **Ardenrun** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:44 am

Hi Rob/ Alec,

As the others have said, Ash is used for its strength, flexibility and its comparatively light weight, when the timber is machined Ash is really stable, rarely does it try to twist or bow.

There are places that offer clear pressure treating, this form of treating is normally only used by companies wishing to treat machined softwood joinery components, before assembly. The treatment is called Celpruf.

I personally feel it wouldn't offer much in the way of additional protection on Ash, but for what it costs (Very cheap) it could be worth a try.

I would be more inclined to soak certain components in wood preservative a week prior to assembly, the bottoms of the rear posts and cill shaped sections by the B post come to mind.

Then you have the choice of wood treatments to apply.

Burgess Marine grade wood sealers, clear or UV blocked. Great product but if your Traveller lives outside you should use the UV blocked version which will change the colour.

Yacht Varnish, traditional method but prone to cracking.

Sikkens HLS and Filter 7 Proffesional UV blocked Satin finishs. ( After sucessive coats the product will darken the wood, but does work well).

Exterior grade Danish Oil, will require regular applications.

All the best

Ardenrun

Post by **paulhumphries** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:54 am

Morgan body frames are made out of ash. I think they simply "Cuprinol dip" rather than pressure treat.

Paul H

Post by **old.bodger** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 6:13 pm

I've recently been giving this some thought and was wondering if the timber sections could be placed in a sealed tube ( I know this needs some engineering work) and pressurised with 'the fluid' (what ever it should be). I was tempted to 'soak' some sections of Ash in a bath at normal pressure and in a pressure tube, then cut them across and see if there was any penetration difference. Anyone any idea of the size of tube would be needed to enclose the larger traveller sections? Any thoughts anyone.......... Traveller arriving next week (long longed for!) and it's first job is going to be new rear doors!

Post by **PSL184** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 6:18 pm

What about UPVC ?

Post by **rob.hardy1** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 6:24 pm

Mr Bodger , or could i call you old?

Pressure treatments work in exactly the opposite way than your suggestion. on the basis of placing timber in a 'tank' and then forming a vacuum. The treatment material (culcure,tanolith,vac.vac etc) is then 'sucked' into the material deeper, i would imaging, than soaking would. I do take the point of this working much better on softwood(open grained) than hardwood.

Post by **old.bodger** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 6:34 pm

Thanks.....prefer Bodger to Old!
Ok I have access to a vacuum pump so try that you think.......so what fluid and any idea on the vacuum required / time to treat?.....this is going to have to be a good bit of 'industrial' pipe and fittings!

Post by **ASL642** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 6:38 pm

We rewooded Vikki 2 years ago and I soaked the ash panels in Cuprinol until they would not absorb any more and then used Danish Oil. Touch up with Danish oil every few months.

Post by **paulhumphries** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 7:00 pm

regaliaqueen wrote:We rewooded Vikki 2 years ago and I soaked the ash panels in Cuprinol until they would not absorb any more and then used Danish Oil. Touch up with Danish oil every few months.

This gets my vote as the best method

Paul H

linearaudio · Post by **linearaudio** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:25 am

Standard 4" soil pipe should be right sort of size, Mr B. Screw on sealing end caps are readily available.

linearaudio · Post by **linearaudio** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:26 am

Sorry, slow internet connection!!

Post by **simmitc** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:06 am

Just to muddy the waters.....

The frames are glued and (in some areas such as rear doors) screwed together. Modern adhesives are exceptionally strong, but do they work better on untreated timber? I don't know, but just wonder whether the ideal is to assemble the frame and then, if one can find a big enough vessel, pressure treat it in one piece? The boiling Cuprinol method sounds fun, but then would the heat affect the adhesive? Sorry, unusually I have only questions rather than answers.

Post by **aupickup** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:30 am

in the trade we al ways treat before assemblng and glueing

also a good glue to use id the PU expanding glues
they can be stained over unlike pva and cascamite, and 2 part adhesives
the pu glues form a very good bond and also being expanding will fill any holes iin the joint, but you do have to clamp while glueing
they cure off in about 20 minutes
we use this glue for all window frames, and doors

Post by **MarkyB** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:32 pm

If there is a treatment that is clear, cheap and effective it has to be the way to go.
While finding out about Tanilising I found a site where they guarantee treated timber for 60 years above ground!
The original treatment was effective, the minimum to get some longevity must be to make sure the end grains and drain holes get a good soaking in anti-rot liquid.

At first the idea of UPVC was revolting but if was double glazed and the windows opened in unusual ways it might be fun, like having the half-timbered look with black wood and "plastered" panels.

How about cast aluminium? That would look striking and low maintenance.

Post by **stag36587** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:51 pm

What, you mean mock Tudor Marky? That really would be classic!!

Post by **MarkyB** » Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:06 pm

Tudor! that's what I wasn't sure of.
It's a bit bit of a standing joke. American tourist say "Gee look, a half timbered car!"
I've got a feeling it's already been done

Who fancies cast aluminium? It should be strong enough surely?
Silver car, polished "woodwork" alloys?
Definitely a double take, head turning car.