Drinking problem

Post by **pao7psb** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:51 pm

My new charge appoears to have something of a drink problem with respect to the black stuff - I know they almost all leak oil, but she is drinking far more than could be put down to a leak (the drip trays aren't that full). I have not done anything vaguely scientific in terms of measuring this but I would guess a couple of litres every 50 miles or so seems to be the appetite

. I am guessing this isn't normal?

A period owners manual I have suggests a recon engine is the answer, but these look about £600 and would no doubt be many man hours to slot in.

Any ideas?

Post by **tonym911** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:54 pm

Yes - buy shares in BP, quick.

Post by **pao7psb** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:57 pm

Hmmm, this is only going one way, isn't it

<br>

Post by **PSL184** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:09 pm

If it is burning that much oil I would expect to see plumes of smoke out of the exhaust either on accel or decel. If when accelerating it will be piston rings - you may get away with just replacing them and nothing else. If on decel it will be valve stem oil seals which can be done with the engine and head in situ. However, for this much consumption I would expect a very worn engine and a rebuild is the only long term answer. Check the breathers are clear and look to see if you get smoke out of the oil cap at idle - this will give a good clue to the state of the engine internally....

Post by **tonym911** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:17 pm

Sorry to make light of your misfortune. Excellent Krusty pic.

Post by **Kevin** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:59 pm

I would guess a couple of litres every 50 miles or so seems to be the appetite . I am guessing this isn't normal?

That is very excessive that's more than it should use in a 1,000miles as mentioned I would expect it to be a heavy smoker with that sort of consumption or an unmistakable leak.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:19 am

This sounds VERY excessive oil consumption - what happens when you take the oil filler cap off - with the engine hot and idling ? And - if possible - get a compression check and post up the result.

Post by **ptitterington** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:48 pm

Possibly someone has fitted a 2 stroke engine at sometime ...

Had similar figures with my series III Landrover but it smoked a lot.

Post by **Chris Morley** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:12 pm

Are you sure it's that much? A couple of litres every 50 miles is an amazing amount to loose. It would mean buying a new can of oil every time you fill up with petrol! Does this mean your oil pressure warning light comes on all the time?

I would say my engine is well worn and it requires roughly a half litre of oil every month (250-300 miles).

Post by **simmitc** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:19 pm

"Normal" consumption (if there is such a thing) is usually quoted at one pint every 300 miles. You seem to be 4 times that. If the engine is that bad, I'd expect lots of rattles and knocks as well as coulds of smoke.

If you do go for a new one, then the book time is 4 hours out and 4 hours in. Many on here will manage 2 hours out and 3 in, or even better, with the correct tools; and a new engine is certainly not a terminal diagnosis, so don't lose heart.

Post by **pao7psb** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:05 pm

Thanks for all the replies on this, the plot thickens... I have a few reasons for being optimistic that this may not be a new engine job:

1) Mrs pao7psb has followed me while I have been in the Minor and reports that black smoke, while evident, is not all that bad
2) Before I bought her (the car that is, not Mrs pao7psb) - and this was only only a month or so ago - the car was looked at by a specialist recommended by the club, who presumably would have noticed if the engine was that knackered?
3) The car has also been with a Minor specialist for a few weeks who did various things including rectifying an oil leak from oil-pipe to filter and a carburretor clean-out and adjustment - they too would surely have noticed on test runs if it was all that bad?
4) The car had been subject to a full rebuild by the chap I bought it from, although not every part is new, and the engine was supposedly overhauled. Work carried out was listed as:
Decoke
Valves re-lapped
New head gasket
New valve-stem oils seals
Tappets reset
Rocker oil cover
Oil filter
Oil pumped checked for wear
Big-end bearing checked for wear
Cylinder head removed and checked for warping

The rattles, knocks and clouds of smoke described by simmitc aren't really evident to me when I'm driving - but the fact remains I am losing lots of oil! My thoughts are that maybe something wasn't put back quite right when it was rebuilt. Or maybe it is a big oil leak that hasn't filled the drip tray because the sump has emptied itself by the time I get home! I will try and do some sort of scientific measurement of oil consumption at the weekend and report back.

Post by **Kevin** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:13 pm

Looking at your list of things that were done I would have a close look at

rectifying an oil leak from oil-pipe to filter

Because if the pipe is not fully connected there you could certainly lose a fair amount of oil as you are going along, have a close look with the engine running as a weep will be quite apparent from either end of the pipe.

Post by **pao7psb** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:26 pm

Thanks Kevin, I'll have a check, although judging by the amount of oil I was using driving her home when I first bought her, I think the problem pre-dates this particular problem.

I appear to have invented Cluedo - Morris Minor Edition

Post by **bmcecosse** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:40 pm

I have to wonder who all these 'Minor Specialists' are ! Interesting that the oil pump was said to be 'checked for wear' - that would be an engine out job, and they are always worn (scored rotor lobes) and since they are inexpensive are best replaced rather than take any chances !
Have you tried the 'oil filler cap off test' yet ? It's very telling!

Post by **pao7psb** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:21 pm

I have to wonder who all these 'Minor Specialists' are !

The Moggie Mafia seems to spread its tentacles far and wide!

I have topped her up today and left her stationary on top of a clean drip tray for a few hours to see what happened - and there did not appear to be much dripping at all. I will do a measured run tomorrow and see what happens.

I have been using 15w/40 mineral oil, but I now discover that 20w/50 seems to be recommended - will this have an impact, and can I mix and match 15w/40 and 20w/50 or will I need to wait until the sump is dry (which shouldn't take that long I would imagine) before I start using 20w50?

Post by **dalebrignall** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:42 pm

use the 20/50 oil the engines were designed to use this oil.dont wait for the sump to go dry,you will do some serious damage.if its burning that mush oil try adding a can of stp,the red bottle to your engine oil might help.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:58 am

The engines were 'designed' to run on straight 30 oil ! That was what was available in the 50s/60s. But there is no doubt that 20W50 oil is the way to go. Asda or Morrison 'own brand' oil is fine !

Post by **pao7psb** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:41 pm

The Good News:

1) Snowdrop still had the same amount of oil in her this morning as I put in her yesterday afternoon, having not been driven anywhere in the interrim

2) On a nice 27 mile drive around the Buckinghamshire countryside this fine Spring morning, there was no evidence of black smoke, knocking or generally sounding like the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse had rolled into down.

The Bad News:

On same 27 mile trip I lost enough oil to take me from just below the "X" on "MAX" to just just above the "N" on "MIN" (I told you I was going to do this scientifically...). I suspect I am persona non grata with the other users of the residential courtyard too...

I guess this is likely to be some sort of leak around the oil pump as she wasn't leaking any oil at all before I started driving her. Hopefully this won't be too expensive a fix...

Post by **aupickup** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:54 pm

oil pump is obviously an engine out job
the cover may have a leak if not properly sealed
on the earlier ones they recomended soldering the cover

good luck

are you sure it is still not a breathing problem, or another cause

Post by **aupickup** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:54 pm

oil pump is obviously an engine out job
the cover may have a leak if not properly sealed
on the earlier ones they recomended soldering the cover

good luck

are you sure it is still not a breathing problem, or another cause