Which oil?

Post by **davidpidge** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:21 pm

I was wondering what engine oil I should use for my '59 moggy. Any suggestions?

Post by **PSL184** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:29 pm

20/50 as per the old Duchams variety. Coma do a version these days and so do Halfords but theirs is mega expensive. Same oil goes in the gearbox to....
Nice to see you've "borrowed" my signature

Post by **bmcecosse** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:51 pm

Asda /Morrisons 20W50 oil is plenty good enough for these engines. Just change it - and the filter, regularly. Make sure the support disc is present under the filter cartridge when changing - if it's been lost (and many have !) then the filter is doing absolutely nothing. For best economy - a thinner 10W30 oil may be beneficial in the gearbox.

Post by **Kevin** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:18 am

For best economy - a thinner 10W30 oil may be beneficial in the gearbox.

Hmm thats a new one to me I didnt think the standard gearbox caused much drag.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:48 am

Oh yes - all the gears are churning away all the time through the thick oil! Ford have just announced a super thin oil for their gearboxes as part of their drive to improve Fuel Economy.

Post by **IslipMinor** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:36 pm

I take a different view and would always put in a good quality, API 'rated' 20w/50 oil into a standard engine, and not many of the supermarket own brands have any rating at all - it has been suggested that they are mainly recycled oil that's already done it's job once! The API label is on the container, but be aware that there are 'fake' ones that are made to look like a genuine API label. Also ignore text claims about quality, which are often plastered about on the container, unless they are backed up with an API rating.

API SF used to be a 'good' quality, but was then replaced progressively up to SJ, which is about to be replaced with SM. These recent changes are more to do with emmisions than lubricating properties.

If the engine is modified, I would use either a semi or full synthetic to give the maximum protection.

For the gearbox, since it was not made to the same tolerances that are common today I would stay with a 20w/50, the same as the engine. The only exception would be if the car operates in a very cold climate all the time, then maybe a 10w/40. Definitely a multigrade as this gives much better initial gear changes when cold.

Oils have improved immensely since the A-Series engine was designed. Our original 1958 948 engine was rebored at 30,000 miles by the first owner, and needed an exchange crankshaft at 41,000 - not long after my mother bought it at 6 years old. We have all the service documents and the car had been regularly serviced by the PO, so that was not the reason.

After that, the exchange crank was still perfect at 99,000 miles, on the same bearings shells supplied with the crank, when the engine, which by then had been well modified for the previous 40,000+ miles, was replaced with the current 1380. The bores looked fine too. Combination of oil development and good quality oils used!

Good reminder about the oil filter plate, and the rest is really down to what the individual owner believes is right for them.

Post by **davidpidge** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:52 pm

Thanks for all the replys. I went for Halfords own 20w50. API SE CC, 5 litres for £16.99. Just in time. I nearly put the full 5 litres in!

PSL184 wrote:Nice to see you've "borrowed" my signature

Borrowed? It was shamelessly stolen. I wanted a signature that might give me some credibility on the Moggy circuit!

Post by **PSL184** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:54 pm

davidpidge wrote:
PSL184 wrote:Nice to see you've "borrowed" my signature
Borrowed? It was shamelessly stolen. I wanted a signature that might give me some credibility on the Moggy circuit!

I'd stay well away from me if you want any credibility

Post by **Kevin** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:03 am

bmcecosse wrote:Oh yes - all the gears are churning away all the time through the thick oil! Ford have just announced a super thin oil for their gearboxes as part of their drive to improve Fuel Economy.

Hmm I don't see how a 2009 gearbox oil is relevant to a 40+ year old one and I have not heard of anyone suggesting to use a different gearbox oil to improve economy in a Moggie are there facts and figures available.

Post by **davidpidge** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:58 am

I always assumed that the oil you put into the engine was also going into the gearbox. Am I wrong? Can you put a different oil into the gearbox and if so how do you get it in there?

Post by **aupickup** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:59 am

except early gearboxes i think, but may be wrong

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:07 am

Well Kevin - I have just suggested it! In fact - the original oil used in these boxes was straight 30 engine oil, modern 10W30 is less viscous at low temp - but effectively straight 30 at working temp.
Using 20W50 oil in the box causes more drag - simples !
I'm not suggesting the 'super thin' new Ford oil would suit the Minor box - but it might!

Post by **Kevin** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:13 am

davidpidge wrote:I always assumed that the oil you put into the engine was also going into the gearbox. Am I wrong? Can you put a different oil into the gearbox and if so how do you get it in there?

You are correct in the Moggie you use 20w50 in both the engine and the gearbox on all of the OHV engines as Dennis has said the series MM is different, unlike many other cars that use a hypoid 80 spec which in a Moggie will finish the gearbox off. The arrow shows where the gearbox filler isand you can either access it by removing the rubber bung on that side of the transmission tunnel or do it from underneath its probably easier to use on of the squeezy type containers with a tube to squirt it in until its level with the top of the filler. In case you decide to do the rear axle as well the tool below is useful as it undoes a multitude of plugs and fillers.
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Post by **Kevin** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:21 am

bmcecosse wrote:Well Kevin - I have just suggested it! In fact - the original oil used in these boxes was straight 30 engine oil, modern 10W30 is less viscous at low temp - but effectively straight 30 at working temp.
Using 20W50 oil in the box causes more drag - simples !
I'm not suggesting the 'super thin' new Ford oil would suit the Minor box - but it might!

I dont know how far back you have to go to find the use of the straight 30 oil reccommended but in both of my manuals BMC1963 & Leyland 1970 quote for 20w50 for all gearboxes apart from the series MM.

Post by **minor_hickup** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:16 pm

I'd be worried about using a thinner oil unless its very good quality. If the film strength is not as good the box will wear faster. SAE30 may have originally been specified, but then having to have your gearbox rebuilt was far more common then! It was probably specified as SAE 40 or 50 would be far too thick at low temperatures.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:30 pm

Exactly! Good 10W 30 oil will be fine. It's fine in a good engine too! 20W50 is best for a rather worn/poorly engine of course, and similarly for a rather timeworn box where it may quieten things down a bit.