Converting to Wolseley brakes.....a guide.

Post by **grumpygrandad** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:59 pm

hello got of track again,,,,grandad

Post by **jonathon** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:18 pm

YG, who's bickering and not really off track. The guide was a good idea, however Roy's contribution does sound the alarm bells, and that is all we have said. Its fair to give both pros and cons for modifications what ever they are.

linearaudio · Post by **linearaudio** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:19 pm

Out of interest, would you never anticipate getting a brake imbalance by fitting any of the various disc conversions?? Why should this be directed only at a drum upgrade? Or am I missing something in the disc setup!

Post by **jonathon** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:45 pm

Yes you are quite correct, you will get an imbalance, if you fit any uprated front brakes and retain the std rears.
We always suggest that you should view mods as 'systems' ie front discs are only a part of the braking system ,so you need to address the imbalance by either uprating/modifying or simply making sure that the rears are working perfectly.
The imbalance with discs might be masked by the fitting of a servo, which is normally applied to both front and rears, and the locking up senario outlined by Roy does not really present itself, or at least in my experience it has'nt and we have fitted our fair share of them.

Post by **MikeNash** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:13 pm

Well, Youngun!
Let's pull this back to your offering! I've been doing my Wolseley conversion for about four years and am still not there! Your article and its excellent photos are a great encouragement and a first class example of a "how to" guide. (The only thing that could be added is the longer brake pipe needed between the cylinders.) Please don't be put off doing such a guide again.
Re the controversy on the type of cylinders, I've gone the Minor cylinder route and will see how it pans out. You'll be ahead of me, so let us know how it works for you, please!
Personally, I suspect that the difference in braking performance and characteristics I get between my Traveller empty (except for me!) and when loaded and towing a loaded trailer using only the 8 inch fronts is more than the difference between the 8 inchers and the 9 inchers. Only experience will tell if the Minor cylinders make it "twitchy" - but I'll still be glad of the extra help!
So be of good cheer! MikeN.

Post by **alex_holden** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:29 pm

MikeNash wrote:(The only thing that could be added is the longer brake pipe needed between the cylinders.)

I used a standard one from ESM.

I converted my backplates a bit differently: if you want to keep the shoe pivot point in the same place as with the Wolseley cylinders you need to extend the back of the slot by 0.12" and the front by 0.13", and move both holes by about the same amount.

They seem to stop very well to me. Certainly the pedal is much lighter than with the standard Minor brakes. I think if there is an imbalance it could be reduced by fitting the earlier, larger bore rear cylinders. I haven't found a supplier that has any in stock yet (not looked very hard though).

Post by **youngun** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:22 pm

MikeNash wrote:Well, Youngun!
Let's pull this back to your offering! I've been doing my Wolseley conversion for about four years and am still not there! Your article and its excellent photos are a great encouragement and a first class example of a "how to" guide.

Well thankyou very much, glad its already been of help to someone!
YG

Post by **bmcecosse** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:30 am

The brake pipe between cylinders from the 8" brakes still fits the W brakes - with either W cylinders or Minor cylinders.
I have mentioned this dis-proportionate braking on the front wheels - with Minor cylinders - before. With W cylinders it's been perfect for me and my experience with them has been excellent. It also eliminates the need for any modifications to backplates etc - and makes the conversion straightforward 'bolt off - bolt on' provided the new brakes are in good condition of course. I will be converting my Minor cylindered 9" brakes back to W cylinders (I have enough spares now) - but I do stress - this seemingly excessive braking force on the front wheels MAY simply be because I have nice new shoes on that set of brakes - although they had a season's running last year and the problem persisted throughout - even after an attempt to 'burn them in' by braking time and again to get them really hot! They did become a bit smelly - but didn't fade at all!

linearaudio · Post by **linearaudio** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:18 pm

This has got me thinking now in general about brake balance! My traveller certainly will lock up at the front with the W brakes, which it never would previously, but then the front seems to lock up on any car I put in that position, so my thoughts would be then how much effort is going to the rear by comparison, and how you would really judge without a rolling road and some figures. As the balance changes with load spread, and body type within the model range, then the whole lot must start getting a bit involved! I would like to see some "ideal" figures, so I had a starting point, then I could get on a rolling road and see what I have got by comparison!

Post by **PSL184** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:24 pm

Your MOT test figures will give you a static distribution force - usually about 60/40 on most cars but in the standard Minors case more likely 70/30. I wouldn't worry too much about rear brake influence in normal road conditions as I doubt it makes much difference anyway. You only have to worry if the rears provide more brake force than the fronts

Post by **jonathon** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:40 pm

I'd say that the 60/40 balance is important to maintain when upgrading the brakes. A good rear brake will help maintain a controlled braking any figure favouring the fronts disproportionally will transfer too much weight to the front not only increasing the possibility of locking up but also heavier steering and lack of adequate suspension.

Post by **PSL184** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:43 pm

Agreed - but as there are many influencing factors to brake balance, one should not purley be looking at brake size / efficiency.....

Post by **bmcecosse** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:16 pm

The rears DO provide useful braking - don't ignore their effect in helping to stop the car! Best conversion of course is to fit the larger 8" rear drums also from the W 1500 - I had this on my Rally Minor and the brakes were fantastic. But -I find the 7" drums on my Traveller work very well with the 9" W drums on W cylinders - giving excellent stopping power without undue locking of the front wheels before the rears. A good hard push does lock all 4 pretty much simultaneously.