Converting to Wolseley brakes.....a guide.

[youngun]

Bout time someone did this!

Step one, Buy A set of Wolseley 1500 brakes. Ideally they wont be damaged in transit so you then have to go and buy another set (I hate DHL.....).
Now, If you have a decent set of Wolseley cylinders, its literally a straight swap over onto the King pins. However, its common place to fit Morris Cylinders, so this guide is for that.
So, first of all. Heres a picture of a Wolseley cylinder and Morris cylinder. The morris cylinder is on the right.
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u118 ... C00475.jpg

So, you have to get those to fit on the Wolseley back plate like so....
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u118 ... C00477.jpg

First off, make sure you have the correct cylinders for the correct backplate as they are handed. In this case im using a left hand back plate and cylinders. The Cylinders have LH cast into them and backplate will also have LH stamped into it.
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u118 ... C00476.jpg
Remove the original cylinders, you'll be left with two slots like with a drilled hole below them and one to the outside at the top, it helps to have the plate mounted on the king pin at this point.
The hole below the bottoms of the slots need to be welded up, set the welder on the highest setting it will go as the metal is thick and we need a good weld. Then plug the hole like so....
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u118 ... C00478.jpg
Next, you need to grind back the welds smooth.
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u118 ... C00480.jpg

Next, you need to file the slot to accommodate the longer morris cylinder. Best way is to Use a pair of vernier calipers and a decent sharp 1" flat file.
Measure up the cylinder, and lock the caliper in that position. http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u118 ... C00492.jpg
Theyre the same width, so no filing is needed that way.
Next, use the jaws of the calipers to make a set of parallel lines down the slot. Then mark one across to show the bottom of the new slot like so.....
http://s166.photobucket.com/albums/u118 ... C00493.jpg

File away carefully, and test fit the cylinder now and then. You want a good fit, with no slop or play.
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u118 ... C00495.jpg

Once thats done, you have to mark the position of the new hole. Easiest way is to put the cylinder into position and then mark the hole through the cylinder with a centre punch.
Then its just a matter of drilling the hole, make sure you have clearance for the bolt...but not too much.
Once thats done, repeat for the other cylinder......and Your done!
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u118 ... C00501.jpg


Then its just a matter of repainting and refitting. But I havent got that far yet!

All the best,
YG

[bmcecosse]

I have to point out that I have found the W brakes to be 'unbalanced' when using Minor cylinders. The cylinders are larger bore - and they seem to put too much braking force on the front wheels (or too little on the rear wheels - whichever way you want to look at it!) and so the overall braking possible is limited because the front wheels lock up all too easily. With the original W cylinders - I found the overall braking to be excellent and nicely balanced, with no tendency for either end to lock up - although of course all 4 can be locked easily in an emergency stop ! Yes - I know that's not (in theory) the best way to stop - point is the wheels can be locked, and with normal pedal pressure at that - and of course no servo.
This is my experience of using two sets of these brakes - maybe the set with Minor cylinders are like that because they have brand new shoes fitted - the set with W cylinders have older (but not badly worn) shoes fitted. So - I suggest if possible - stick with W cylinders ! Although they are expensive (very possibly un-obtainable new now) - seals are readily available from various vendors on ebay, and with care the cylinders can be refurbished successfully.

[aupickup]

perhaps a guide to disc brakes as well

[youngun]

perhaps a guide to disc brakes as well

Send me a set free of charge and ill do one

[bmcecosse]

Good reply YG!

[morrisman1]

discs are certainly easier to do!! theres not much to doing a morris marina disc brake conversion.

[bmcecosse]

Not 'easier' (yes, I can hear the groans already) if you consider the Master Cylinder modifications + remote filler + servo installation required!

[Kevin]

I have to point out that I have found the W brakes to be 'unbalanced' when using Minor cylinders. The cylinders are larger bore - and they seem to put too much braking force on the front wheels (or too little on the rear wheels - whichever way you want to look at it!) So - I suggest if possible - stick with W cylinders ! Although they are expensive (very possibly un-obtainable new now) - seals are readily available from various vendors on ebay, and with care the cylinders can be refurbished successfully.

Well after flogging upgrade this to death over the years you are now saying it has a major pitfall which could cause some serious problems especially at this time of year, can some of the other exponents of this conversion give an opinion because if this is a common problem it really needs to be pointed out to anyone considering the conversion that using Moggie cylinders can give problems.

[PSL184]

It is well documented that due to the larger size, Minor wheel cylinders will give more force to the front brakes if used with the larger Wolseley drum set up. There is no major pitfall if you use the Wolseley cylinders. If you want to fit Minor cylinders an in line pressure reducing valve could be used....

[Kevin]

It is well documented that due to the larger size, Minor wheel cylinders will give more force to the front brakes if used with the larger Wolseley drum set up. There is no major pitfall if you use the Wolseley cylinders. If you want to fit Minor cylinders an in line pressure reducing valve could be used....

I am sorry but from my point of view its often not mentioned when recommended as a conversion to new posters or those that are not mechanically knowledgeable, also can you tell me where it is well documented because I dont recall (with my memory thats not surprising) anyone else apart from Roy mentioning this problem in the past and as this is being mentioned on a regular basis these days I feel this issue should be made fully aware whenever the recommendation is made especially from a safety point of view which I am a great believer in.

[jonathon]

Kevin, maybe the advocates of this braking upgrade put the money they have saved by not buying a servo,discs, header tank and uprating the m/c towards 'life insurance', or private health care.
And now we're told that one needs to buy at yet more expence a 'pressure reducing valve'

[PSL184]

I am sorry but from my point of view its often not mentioned when recommended as a conversion to new posters or those that are not mechanically knowledgeable.

Then they should not be playing with their brakes anyways

[jonathon]

Trouble is though PSL (?) its standard practice on this forum to encourage those who are not mechanically minded or able to weld to do just so. Some people can embrace the skills required but I despair for those who do not and are probably driving around in 'death traps' convinced that because someone on the forum sees pics of their welding , that it has indeed been correctly performed. Its a dangerous route to take and one that needs utmost caution.

[PSL184]

Agree entirely with that Jonathon and hopefully anyone with doubts about their ability would get a professional to do the work or at least have it checked over afterwards. If a car has undergone a full resto after been off the road for a while the MOT test should highlight any problems but certainly the dangers are of the weekend tinkerer who is "learning" as they go along..... Rich

[Kevin]

Then they should not be playing with their brakes anyways

But there are also those that take the advice given on here as gospel and then go to their local mechanic and ask him to carry out the work and he may not be aware of the differences and as the customer has assured him its all OK he goes ahead as requested. I also have to agree with Jonathons comments.
Also Rich have you had any luck with the well documented issues with the cylinders.

[PSL184]

Kevin, I haven't been back through old posts looking specifically for any well documented information. I've read it a number of times and quite possibly it was Roy who wrote it each time. Point is, the info is there and also raised again on this post which will be read by people searching for info on this type of conversion. Both yours and Jonathon's comments are valid and I'm not disputing them or the advice you are giving but why pick on this thread to take issue with the potential inability of the home mechanic to complete the job in a satisfactory manner? This brake conversion is much easier to do than converting to discs, despite what anyone else says and even easier if you use Wolseley cylinders... Similar safety issues can arise from an incompetant person changing a wheel but we don't raise the points then, do we, we just assume that you would not attempt a job unless you knew what you were doing?

[jonathon]

From my point of view , the whole premise for performing this drum conversion is one of cost (often deriding discs, but never mind) It is advised that you can modify the backplates and fit Minor ones, not a problem for the competant. This is a good cheap upgrade if performed correctly, with the right parts.
My issue with safety could have been tagged onto the back of several posts not related to this mod, but an important point has been made by Roy and been followed up by Kevin. For my pennyworth I thought I'd add to your point (Rich) that you should not attempt a mod or job if you are not confident with the skills you posess.
One is responsible for one's advice and comments on this forum ,bad advice or advice which should only be given if the work can be viewed,personally could land you in trouble.
I admit that the mechanical advise on here is normally pretty good, but to advise a novice,non welder to attempt a full chassis and body rebuild is complete madness. I think constructive criticism can sometimes be overlooked by nieve enthusiasm.

[Kevin]

Kevin, I haven't been back through old posts looking specifically for any well documented information. I've read it a number of times and quite possibly it was Roy who wrote it each time. Point is, the info is there and also raised again on this post which will be read by people searching for info on this type of conversion. Both yours and Jonathon's comments are valid and I'm not disputing them or the advice you are giving but why pick on this thread to take issue with the potential inability of the home mechanic to complete the job in a satisfactory manner? This brake conversion is much easier to do than converting to discs, despite what anyone else says and even easier if you use Wolseley cylinders... Similar safety issues can arise from an incompetant person changing a wheel but we don't raise the points then, do we, we just assume that you would not attempt a job unless you knew what you were doing?

Hi Rich please dont think I am having a dig at you, the biggest problem is that our site search facilities are not too good unfortunately and its sometimes difficult to get the info you need, the main reason I have picked up on it this time as I dont remember the term unbalanced being used before and as its front brakes we are talking about I just felt I had to flag it up, nothing else is or was intended.

[PSL184]

Kevin, no, I didn't think that at all..... The whole lot started me thinking though - I would never have dreampt anyone would undertake such work just because it was mentioned on here if they didn't have the mechanical knowledge to do a good job !!

[youngun]

Can we please stop bickering, this guide was supposed to help those that wanted to know how to do it, not scare them off forever and ever......


YG (rather disgruntled)