Uprated torsion bars

Post by **minor_hickup** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:31 pm

Just a quick question to see if anyone here has uprated torsion bars on their car? I was thinking about how I was going to clean up and repaint the suspension on my current project and started thinking about upgrading while I was there. Its already going to get adjustable tele shocks, and a dash of -ve camber at the front. Has anyone found the increase in spring rate beneficial?

Post by **bmcecosse** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:42 pm

Personal view is they are not necessary for a road car - but I believe marina bars can be fitted and are stiffer. Whatever you do - don't make the mistake of setting the car too low - so there is no suspension travel and the car hammers it's bump stops all the time !

Post by **minor_hickup** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:48 pm

I agree, one of the thoughts behind the stronger bars was allowing a slightly lower ride height without hammering the bump stops. I think the handling would benefit from a lowered roll centre and may possible control the roll and front wallow the minor suffers from. But then I may be wrong which is why I wondered if anyone had tried them! As for marina bars, I don't think they're a straight swap and the vans are certainly a rare sight in the scrappies!

Post by **IslipMinor** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:25 am

I have Marina van torsion bars fitted from a scrap van about 12 years ago, and yes, they are not a straight swap. Owen Burton did an adaptor kit for the cross-member end - the front into the suspension is a direct fit.

They are not that much stiffer, but the cost of 'uprated' bars was rather high when I was completing the restoration, so the Marina ones seemed a good half-way move.

I have lowered the front (and rear), and also cut off about 1" from both front and rear bump stops - also reshaped them to put back the 'progression' shape, i.e. the cone.

The dampers are Koni telescopic all round - the fronts were re-valved by Koni to be 30% stiffer on bump and are set to full 'hard' and the rears are standard valving, set to full 'soft'. The adjustment is only on rebound, hence the re-valving on the fronts.

Anti-roll bars front and rear and the lower front suspension arm spaced out to the maximum with a standard eye bolt and gives a hint of negative camber.

Seems to work very well over all sorts of surfaces, with only the very occasional thump if really heavily loaded.

Post by **Peetee** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:18 am

I had an anti-roll bar fitted to a previous Minor and found that improved the front end. It has the effect of stiffening up the front torsion bars when any single wheel hits a bump. if both wheels hit the same obstruction however there is no additional resistance whatsoever.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'wallow'. I usually use that word when describing insufficient damping and there are several ways around that, one of which you mention - tele shocks.
I'm currently running 20W oil in my dampers and it makes a huge difference. I have a tele shock kit but can't see that it's going to be significantly better so it's still in the box!

Post by **bmcecosse** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:08 am

Good damping is the answer - I have 20W50 oil in the lever arms (just swapping out old rotten oil makes a huge difference) and big tele dampers on the front end. I haven't yet found a satisfactory way to fit tele dampers on the rear of the Traveller (there is virtually no strength in the body) - but it doesn't seem to be a big problem.

Post by **jonathon** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:15 pm

bmcecosse wrote:Good damping is the answer - I have 20W50 oil in the lever arms (just swapping out old rotten oil makes a huge difference) and big tele dampers on the front end. I haven't yet found a satisfactory way to fit tele dampers on the rear of the Traveller (there is virtually no strength in the body) - but it doesn't seem to be a big problem.

You need to have a look at some of the kits readily available from the Minor suppliers then Roy. Some are better than others.
Correctly designed kits will alay your fear of the strength of the traveller rear.

Post by **Kevin** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:41 pm

I haven't yet found a satisfactory way to fit tele dampers on the rear of the Traveller

You need to use a turreted system Roy its been around for a while.

Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:02 pm

The company that has taken over marketing the Owen Burton mods do not have any of the marina torsion bar adapters and are not thinking of making any more, at least that is what I was told on monday, luckily before I bought a set of van torsion bars!

Post by **minor_hickup** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:39 pm

have lowered the front (and rear), and also cut off about 1" from both front and rear bump stops - also reshaped them to put back the 'progression' shape, i.e. the cone.

The dampers are Koni telescopic all round - the fronts were re-valved by Koni to be 30% stiffer on bump and are set to full 'hard' and the rears are standard valving, set to full 'soft'. The adjustment is only on rebound, hence the re-valving on the fronts.

Anti-roll bars front and rear and the lower front suspension arm spaced out to the maximum with a standard eye bolt and gives a hint of negative camber.

This sounds much like what I was aiming to achieve, but I believe most of the spax dampers used in kits are fully adjustable which is a bonus. As for an anti roll bar I was going to try without one first and then think about adding one if I felt it was necassary.

Good damping is the answer - I have 20W50 oil in the lever arms (just swapping out old rotten oil makes a huge difference) and big tele dampers on the front end. I haven't yet found a satisfactory way to fit tele dampers on the rear of the Traveller (there is virtually no strength in the body) - but it doesn't seem to be a big problem.

I've also had good results increasing the damping on lever arm dampers. But if I'm fitting adjustables it makes sense to use them as the sole means of damping to have complete control over the damping rate.

The company that has taken over marketing the Owen Burton mods do not have any of the marina torsion bar adapters and are not thinking of making any more, at least that is what I was told on monday, luckily before I bought a set of van torsion bars!

I'm not suprised really, I doubt there's much call for them. You rarely see them in the scrappers or torsion bars for sale.

Post by **IslipMinor** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:02 pm

I believe most of the spax dampers used in kits are fully adjustable

I think you will find that all commonly available 'adjustable' dampers only adjust the 'rebound' not the 'bump'?

Post by **bmcecosse** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:48 pm

Well - I tried the turret idea - and floor was flexing and soon cracked around the turrets! There really is very little strength in a Traveller floor - the saloon is nicely stiffened with the rear seat diaphragm. It definitely need s a 'Forth Bridge' structure across the car - and yes - I know some suppliers sell them, but I'm afraid budget constraints mean I will have to make my own - and it has not made the top of the list yet!

Post by **minor_hickup** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:52 pm

IslipMinor wrote:
I believe most of the spax dampers used in kits are fully adjustable
I think you will find that all commonly available 'adjustable' dampers only adjust the 'rebound' not the 'bump'?

Apparently the ones in the owen burton kit are adjustable for bump and rebound. I was going to use this kit on the rear as I couldn't face cutting holes for turrets in the floor of a one owner 1953 car! Besides they can be set almost vertical with this kit. I plan to use a weld on kit for the front conversion.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:28 am

Yes - the front damper brackets should be weld-on, and rear dampers should be vertical if possible.