MOT Failure - translation of Garage jargon please...

Post by **kas279n** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:14 pm

My poor little Moggie has just failed her MOT

. I got a quote from the garage that did the MOT (not a Moggie specialist), but have also got a quote from another reliable trustworthy local sole trader mechanic. She's failed on some 'excessive corrossion' around the nearside and 'offside rear suspension spring mounting prescribed area'- my friend (the local trustworthy chap) has had a good look around and can't see all the problems they've identified ... he has found some bits that need doing (not big jobs) but not to the extent they've picked up. Anyone else had this problem???

Another thing she failed on is that the steering column top bearing is excessively worn (ie there's a bit of play at the top of the steering column). I've had a look on the usual suspects Moggie parts sites, but can't see the parts I think I need for the repairs... Can anyone give me alternative words that I should look for instead of:

Steering column top bearing
Front suspension arm rubbers

Your advice would be greatly received, as I'd like to get her back on the road asap

Post by **jothina** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:45 pm

there is'nt a bearing in the steering column, it has a felt bush which has to inserted between the outer and inner column

http://morrisminorspares.co.uk/shop/pro ... 37c0d33d91

and i think you mean bushes for the front suspension

http://morrisminorspares.co.uk/shop/pro ... 37c0d33d91

or

http://morrisminorspares.co.uk/shop/pro ... 37c0d33d91

hope this helps

john

Post by **kas279n** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:51 pm

Thanks for this John, I'd seen the bushes for the front suspension, so a second opinion is gratefully received.

I have to say, I have less confidence in the garage now, since they're telling me I need something that doesn't exist. I think it's going to take me longer than the 10 days to get the work done, so I shall go somewhere else for the test once my mechanic has got what he sees as a problem done!

Kathryn

Post by **jothina** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:00 pm

the felt bush in the colum should be oiled, if it has dryed out and theres not to much play at the wheel you might be able to swell it up by squirting oil down the column.
if you change the bushes the poly ones are much better than the rubber.

john

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:25 pm

But the rust problem is the one to worry about first - the MOT garage should be willing to point out exactly what they consider to be 'excessive corrosion' - and exactly what they want done about it!
Don't get in to suspension bushes just now unless they have failed it on them too ?

Post by **kas279n** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:31 pm

It did fail on the suspension bushes too! I'll have a chat with the garage on Monday ... can I take the car on the road without a valid MOT for confirming the work needing doing, I know I can drive it to a for a pre-arranged appointment for repair or retest ... not sure where clarification of problems fits in???

Post by **PSL184** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:37 pm

Agreed, from what you say above she's not failed on suspension bushes - just play in the steering wheel or top column. Look and see if the steering wheel is tightly fitted. The nut that holds the wheel on (under the horn push) can be difficult to tighten and may have worked loose. Your local friendly qualified mechanic should be more that able to identify what welding needs doing so get him to do what he thinks and take it back for your retest. Remember that "some" garages may try to tell you more is needed than actual in order to get money out of you for repairs. If you get the car repaired to MOT standard and it still fails you can appeal against this with VOSA - Details on their website......

Post by **PSL184** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:40 pm

OK - so you clarified the above whilst I was writing - Get your mechanic to identify where the play in the suspension is and order the bushes as appropriate. You cannot drive the car on the road without an MOT unless for a pre arranged test or retest so if the old MOT has expired then you will have to have someone come to you. That's why its always wise to take your car for a test before the current one runs out

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:45 pm

It's doubtful if it's legal to drive the car home again after a failed MOT unless the old one is still valid! Even then - if you have just been told your car is not safe to be on the road - I would have thought the old MOT should then be torn up on the spot!

Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:56 pm

My understanding is that provided it is to a pre arrange apointment to get an MOT or work done for the MOT you are allowed to drive the car on the road. If you can drive it to a MOT / garage for work you must be able to drive it back home or you would be stuck if you wanted to do the work at home.

Obviously if the car is totaly unfit for the road that would be a different matter and the MOT station would have been failing in their duty of care if they had not told you... Yes this can happen, a car of mine failed its MOT and the garage told me that it was unfit to be on the road and should be trailered away and wrote this on the MOT fail certificate.

Post by **Kevin** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:04 pm

I though that if an area failed because of corrosion which is not unusial around the rear spring hangers it had to be marked normally with yellow road chalk so you can see the area of fail which it doesnt sound like is the case or your local chap would have picked it up.
There is another possibility with the so called column bearing I assume we are talking a side to side movement against the column itself because if its more of an up and down movement it may just be a loose pinch bolt at the bottom of the column.

linearaudio · Post by **linearaudio** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:50 pm

If your mechanic friend has noticed any nasty bits around the suspension mountings, and it will be pretty obvious, then he should tackle them-"excessive corrosion"... etc doesn't mean the whole bottom is falling out, it is just MOT talk for a rusty area, small or large.
Definitely check the steering wheel isn't loose, a simple fix!! If they are commenting on the front suspension bushes, frankly I'd change the lot at one go for poly ones, they're cheap enough, easy to do and once you (your mechanic) is under there he may as well do the lot!!

Post by **alainmoran** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:45 pm

Excessive corrosion usually means that they have tapped with with a testing hammer and it has stuck in, so while there may not be a physical hole there the metal may be paper-thin, as such it's not safe to drive.

'within a proscribed area' usually means within six inches ... given the vaugness of rear spring mounting, this may be either the spring hangers at the front of the rear suspension (or within 6 inches of them) or the rails at the back ... it may just be that the boot floor is rotten, but either of these places are common spots to rot.

This kind of rot is sometimes caused by a perished rear windscreen rubber, if that's the case then you may well find that the entire rear arches are gone too - the water filters through the rubber, then down along the rear arches and gathers in the rails and around the hangers ... if you are seeing bubbling around the line of the rubber bit that sits between the rear wings and body then this is pretty likely.

If it were me I'd put it up on blocks and start jabbing away with a small phillips screwdriver, if you can poke a hole in it then it needs replacing.

The front bushes & steering wheel are the least of your worries I'm afraid.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:48 pm

I think it is now " 300 mm" (ie 12") distance from suspension mount/seat belt mount/ etc

Post by **alainmoran** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:50 pm

bmcecosse wrote:I think it is now " 300 mm" (ie 12") distance from suspension mount/seat belt mount/ etc

Wow ... thankfully its been a while since mine had any worries on that score

Post by **PSL184** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:04 pm

Its also a Trav so unlikely to be rear screen rubber

Post by **motherofgod** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:11 am

alainmoran wrote:
bmcecosse wrote:I think it is now " 300 mm" (ie 12") distance from suspension mount/seat belt mount/ etc
Wow ... thankfully its been a while since mine had any worries on that score

Interestingly my E type failed on this today but is only a small patch and shall be retested tomorrow.......................and hopefully pass

James<br>

<br>

Post by **kas279n** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:17 pm

Thanks for all the replies. Will definitely be getting it all sorted as soon as possible. The boot floor does look a little less than perfect, so your suggestion of it being thin, is definitely a possibility. When sorting out the hole (just the 1 visible), I'll check anything that is starting to go is replaced properly at the same time.

Thanks again. Will feed back when she passes with flying colours!

Kathryn

Post by **rayofleamington** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:09 pm

the felt bush in the colum should be oiled, if it has dryed out and theres not to much play at the wheel you might be able to swell it up by squirting oil down the column.

It's very unlikely that oiling it will make it swell. Replacing the felt means stripping down the steering column - An easy job if you've done a few but for a novice there's a risk of messing up the alignment of the indicator self cancel mechanism and also messing up the horn circuit commutator.

Yellow chalk / marker is not mandatory

However most garages will do this as is saves so much time and hassles to explain what they meant on the MOT fail sheet.
If there's no yellow chalk and later on there's not much assistance to explain what they meant, then its probably worth to try a different garage next time to find one that's more helpful.

Post by **motherofgod** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:59 pm

I agree ray, mine was not marked, although he did show me what needed to be repaired, and today was retested and passed!

good luck with yours kathryn

james