Diesel engine

[bill773mini]

Has anyone fitted a diesel engine into a moggy?

Looking into the future I'm thinking about a method to side step future tax and emissions legislation for company vehicles.

We currently run a diesel Xsara as a delivery car and I am probably going to have to change it in the next 2 to 3 years.

I was thinking of a project to fit modern rear wheel drive diesel mechanicals either a 4 pot 3 series BMW or Merc.

Obviously I'd need to find a way of fitting all the running gear too with the brakes and suspension etc.

I just think the combination of 60+ mpg, 160 bhp and 230 lb ft with all modern running gear in a moggy traveller would be brilliant without the tax savings added in.

Would it be possible or just way too expensive?

I've found a 2.0 bmw 4 pot diesel engine and 6 speed box on ebay for £1100.

[chrisd87]

It might be theoretically possible, but the cost would most likely wipe out any tax savings. Aside from getting all the mechanicals to fit, trying to transplant the modern electrical system into a Minor would be a herculean task.

The only diesel conversion I have seen in the flesh is a Perkins Prima (2 litre turbo, mechanical direct injection) from a Montego transplanted into a traveller. Didn't speak to the owner though so no idea about performance or fuel consumption.

If you want good economy, a smallish K-Series petrol engine with 5-speed box is probably your best bet. Either that or just leave the good old A-Series alone - any sort of engine conversion is going to cost thousands, which buys a lot of petrol!

[superchargedfool]

I for one do get the idea of all that power at big mpg.

Go for it and start a new trend.

[bmcecosse]

Why would you get any 'tax' savings ? Other than the free Road Fund Licence of course - but you get that anyway with a modern car with low emissions. If you really want to minimise yoour fuel spend - just fit an LPG conversion to the petrol engine of your choice.

[pauln]

I saw a peugeot diesel engined Minor at the national in 05. Had the rad to one side as the engine length was an issue. I would have though the noise would be a problem in a car with such minimal soundproofing as a minor. PPC mag were doing a westfield diesel using a VAG engine joined to a type nine. They needed to find a fairly high ratio diff to match the lower revving nature of the engine. I would have thought the problems are the same as an injected petrol engine in finding a means of delivering high pressure fuel and either getting past any immobilisation built into the ecu or finding an aftermarket ecu to do the job (don't know if you could mega squirt, no ignition drivers to worry about, do diesels have any sort of variable firing timing?).

[paulhumphries]

Seeing a properly tuned A series will do at least 35mpg (I get around 40 out of the 1098 in my Minor and more out of the 948 in the A35) then, as BMC say, a LPG conversions is the way to go.
No hassle with adapter plates, uprating brakes / suspension to cope with extra weight, no additonal noise etc plus gas at almost 1/2 the cost of diesel means the equivalent of 70+ mpg for ther same outlay on fuel.

Paul Humphries

[superchargedfool]

Thereis no tax saving by fitting a diesel.

BUT. come on, 50 mpg, 150 bhp and huge torque is now normal for diesels in small cars. I get it completely.

Type 9, concentric, 1.9 tdi vw engine, 150 bhp, modern reliability. Why not.

Rad should be possible if bulkhead notched.

Would need to think about ratios though.

[pauln]

Just do it for fun. Think my choice would be a traveller (not worth doing if you don't have load capacity). Axle 3.55 Ford english (money no object capri 3.09 atlas shortened to 48" or bigger rolling diameter wheels). Ford sliding caliper brakes on 260/278 discs well up to stopping it. 35mpg out of 1300cc thats terrible (it's where the design shows its age), the 1800 injected zetec in my Cortina does more than that (averages 37 over 40 on long trips). Saying all that i'm not inclined to do one yet (petrol performance is still more fun).

[polo2k]

This is something ive thought about. The problem ive found it that stand alone diesel management is horrendously expensive!!! for the moment Ive deviated to a (slightly ;) )larger petrol engine but if someone can suggest a management system that works like mega squirt then ill be back in the ring!!!
One thing that I found while researching was that quite a lot of the DIY ecu`s (namely megasquirt) dont have the facility to measure boost so most people try and map the fueling and ignition as best they can and then use a knock sensor to 'prolong' engine life!

Speaking as a modern TDI owner I might be able to clear up a few bits and bobs.
The MPG will likley be higher than 60 to the gallon! I can get that in a golf being sensible holding about 2,800Rpm. One thing that you will find is that some modern diesels (e.g. the VNT turbo engines and similar) tend to deliver the boost (and therefore the fueling and therfore power) with a sledge hammer. when the boost come in on my modern it can be enough to tear 2 tyres loose from the road in third when its wet (and they're 235`s!)

My modern is a 2001 Golf GT Tdi with an allards remap, 2.5" intercooler to inlet pipe (the oem is about 1.5") Im running 235 40 18`s and bigger brakes. Therfore not as efficent as it could be but still getting 60mpg dragging a ton and a half of Wolfsburg around. I think that the key to getting a minor closer/past 100 to the gallon would be to get a bit silly on the gearing and try to get the cruising RPM below 1500, there is still enough breathing going on to spool up the turbo, it just takes a bit longer.
If your minor weighs 750Kg (3/4 tonne)(picking numbers out of the air here) and you can get it geared right then you could probably get close to 100 to the gallon! This would be half the weight of the golf!
By the way the long gearing would probably be off set by the 300 Lb/ft available

[Alec]

Hello all,

I must say I am appalled at the thought, really what is the point? Whatever character the car once had would be destroyed completely, why have a classic? With such a modification you then have neither a classic nor a modern car as a Minor with a modern power unit and drive train would simply be far worse than just having the modern?

I have nothing against modifying Minors but I like to see them with 'period' modifications, even K engine transplants turn me off.

Alec

[downsey]

to each their own, alec. But i for one am totally for modernizing the minors drive train. I live in California and even when i had a 1275 in my car, keeping up with traffic was hard enough. Going on the freeway was a chore, and i was always afraid to make long distance trips.

The 4age conversion was the best modification that i did to my car. I literally drive it everywhere (its my daily driver), and have put 2200 miles on the conversion in the last 3 months. It's wayyy more fun to drive and still retains it's classic feel.

[Alec]

Hello Downsey,

I have no idea what a 4age conversion is?

However you say

"even when i had a 1275 in my car, keeping up with traffic was hard enough."

A few years ago my wife and I drove from near Birmingham in the UK down to the South of France near the Spanish Border in one go, apart from the ferry crossing, a trip of mostly motorway (freeway) 900 miles or so. Generally we cruised, traffic allowing at 80 to 85 mph. Then it just had a 1098 engine with a 12G340 head and 1 1\2" S.U. and with a 3.7:1 ratio differential.

Just how fast do you drive in America?

Alec

[Onne]

4AGE is a Toyota engine FYI, quite a common transplant down under (as they case may be the states)

I thought the USA had a speed limit of 60mph?

[Alec]

Hello Onne,

OK, thank you for that, I must admit an option that doesn't appeal but, as said earlier, each to his own.

The American speed limit used to be 55mph (open roads), a touch under 90Kph, I'm not sure what it is now?

Alec

[jonathon]

'A few years ago my wife and I drove from near Birmingham in the UK down to the South of France near the Spanish Border in one go, apart from the ferry crossing, a trip of mostly motorway (freeway) 900 miles or so. Generally we cruised, traffic allowing at 80 to 85 mph. Then it just had a 1098 engine with a 12G340 head and 1 1\2" S.U. and with a 3.7:1 ratio differential.

Now this I find hard to believe

I think if one needs to ask why modify with modern running gear, then one is missing the point and will never accept the reasons given by those who do. As Downsey say's 'each to their own'
Diesels would be be great in a Minor, but I run two turbo diesel moderns and still feel the grin factor lies with a good full bore petrol burner, as some have said these will realise 40mpg plus even with hard use, so if you must go LPG things will only get better.

[Alec]

Hello Jonathon,

you may believe what you like but that is the truth. Oswestry, north of Birmingham to Cap D'Agde in the Herault in France, all through the night. Generally the French motorways are not as crowded as ours and provided you are prepared to drive with as few stops as possible large distances can be covered.

Alec

[jonathon]

Hmmmm, okay I will

[ADO16]

Hello All,

I thought I would chime in on this one regarding the speed limit in California and having to go like a scalded cat to keep up with traffic on the freeway! The posted speed limit in Calif. is no more than 70 mph in any given area of the state, 55 mph for trucks that would also include most of the US. When I lived in Calif until 1996 I drove all kinds of BMC cars from MG 1100 to LoCort's and had no problem keeping up with traffic.

If a person wants to go real fast say 85-90 they could if they didn't get caught. I guess what I'm trying to say is a Morris would drive just fine with a 1098 in it staying at the speed limit. My brother years ago had a girlfriend in L.A. and he would drive down there from San Jose every other weekend to visit her and that was at least 380 miles one-way.

Steve

[downsey]

The American freeway speed limits range from 65-70. But absolutely no one does the speed limit. The fast lane usually zips along around 75-85. Traveling on interstates, most people do anywhere from 85-100. My car would do 75, but that was pretty close to full throttle.

Its not just the speed, it's the acceleration as well. It was hard to keep up off the lights, and my car ran pretty good.

Don't get me wrong, i used to love having the 1275. But For me a modern drive train is more practical. I go to college 200 miles away from home, and i need a car that i know will get me there problem free. And so far the 4age has done it multiple times.

[ADO16]

Hello All,

I thought I would chime in on this one regarding the speed limit in California and having to go like a scalded cat to keep up with traffic on the freeway! The posted speed limit in Calif. is no more than 70 mph in any given area of the state, 55 mph for trucks that would also include most of the US. When I lived in Calif until 1996 I drove all kinds of BMC cars from MG 1100 to LoCort's and had no problem keeping up with traffic.

If a person wants to go real fast say 85-90 they could if they didn't get caught. I guess what I'm trying to say is a Morris would drive just fine with a 1098 in it staying at the speed limit. My brother years ago had a girlfriend in L.A. and he would drive down there from San Jose every other weekend to visit her and that was at least 380 miles one-way.

Steve