Modifying my moggy!!!

Post by **Cam** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 10:50 pm

Hi Martyn,

I have an Ital engined 4-door with approx 120ish BHP at the flywheel, it is useable in traffic. It has been taken out to 1380cc and quite heavily tuned.

If you want to stay with the A-series engine then the Ital/Marina/Midget option is really the only way to reliably do it. You could also fit the 1.6 or 2.0 Fiat/Lotus twin-cam or fit a K-series twin cam (1.4, 1.6 or 1.8 ).

The Fiat is probably the cheapest option and has plenty of scope for tuning.
The A-series is more awkward and expensive but sounds fantansic when tuned.
The K-series is the most expensive.

In any case you are best fitting the Escort MK2 axle to take the power together with the Sierra 5-speed gearbox.

Have a look at my website for more info:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/cameron.shaw/69_1000.htm

Any more specific questions please feel free!

Post by **Daniel1312** » Sun Feb 22, 2004 6:35 pm

I think 120bhp is optimistic for a 276 cam, even at 1380cc. I would think 105bhp would be more like it. Have you had the car on the rolling road?

Post by **Gareth** » Sun Feb 22, 2004 6:46 pm

I have heard that the Ford Zetec engines will fit the Moggy, but how much work was required, I'm not sure...

Post by **Robins** » Sun Feb 22, 2004 8:00 pm

Hi Cam
Why only the mk2 escort axle, what about the mk1 or aren't they up to the job? I should (fingers crossed) be doing that mod on my van over the next few months.
cheers, daniel

Post by **Innovator** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 12:56 pm

To get a useable 100bhp at the wheels you require a large engine. An A Series producing this will be pretty cammy. I would recommend a 2 litre engine.

I have run Fiats with a bit of tuning that gives about 100 and you could drive it at 30mph in 5th put the foot in and it would pull away.

Any of the Ford axles will do, (MK1 Mk2, Escort and Cortina, Anglia etc) the main differences are the width.

Fit good telescopic dampers mounted so as much wheel movement is translated into damper movement, uprated torsion bars and ensure the rest of the car is in good nick.

John

Post by **Cam** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 1:12 pm

I think 120bhp is optimistic for a 276 cam, even at 1380cc. I would think 105bhp would be more like it. Have you had the car on the rolling road?

Not been on the Rolling road yet, but that was the figure quoted by MED Engineering in Leicester who supplied and built the engine for £1500. This figure also took into account my cylinder head which was ported and modified by them. They can get 147 BHP out of a race 1380 so why not 120 out of a road going version? In any case I was not going to argue with them as they have been building race winning engines for decades and I have not!! They do seem to know what they are on about.

The reason I mentioned the Escort MK2 is that there seem to be more about than the MK1.

Like John says if you want a powerful easily drivable car then big ccs are the only way to go, so the Fiat option is a good one, you certainly could not pull away at 30 MPH in 5th in mine! Mine is cammy and can be a bit of a pain at times, but I like tuned A-series engines, so for me it was the only option.

Post by **g_land** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 1:43 pm

lads,

are there many fiat twin cams let over that side of the pond, I was looking for one over here but gave up. I did find an engine but no gearbox!

G

Post by **_h_____** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:01 pm

Everyone will have an opinion on this, you really need to work through them. Faced with a similar issue, I can explain what I did. We have a 57 convertable that had a 948cc in it. My wife need to use the car to do about 15k miles a year mostly on motorway, not at 55mph. So we modified for reliability, cruising speed and some comfort with slightly more modern road manors, whilst attempting to retain external looks and some drive character. That meant a 1275 Aseries, rebuilt but not tuned (its not 100bhp), 5spd box, marina disks front, marina rear axle and drums. Marina wheels and some 165/45 tyres. We also put adjustable dampers on it. This leads to a car that will cruise at 80 (ish) still have some left, will do short runs at higher speed, is still relatively stable and brakes that match.

All parts are readily available, with the exception that marina rear axles are less common now. The type 9 box is off the shelf, the engine you can get parts in halfords. Your options beyond this without going down a cammy route, is to add a supercharger, which unless you drive it like you stole it should give you the extra grunt for acceleration, without suffering reliability. Plus with a belt driven car you get torque low down where you need it for road use.

When considering engine, gear box axle and tyre combinations you need to calculate what speeds you will acheive in what gear at what rpm. Our aim of and easy 80mph cruising, lead to the choice of gearbox, wheels, tyres and 3.9diff. Which ever parts you choice, get that wrong and you will get a car that will do 0-60 in a flash or struggle to go anywhere with a top (theoretical) speed of 130mph.

Do your planning carefully.

Post by **Matt** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:11 pm

You could probably get it in without all that much hassle, but its a really bad engine, it doesn't rev well and has a rubbish torque curve, you would do far better to find a 1275 tuned engine!

Post by **Kevin** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 10:33 am

As Matt says its a dreadful engine and I have not heard of one fitted in a Moggie, if you want more info Cam can supply it as he once had a 1500 Midget and his opinion was !!!!

Post by **Cam** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 11:11 am

Horrible, horrible engines. They don't sound nice or feel nice. a 1275 is a much better bet. The 1500 does not rev nicely or produce anywhere near the power they should for their ccs. Mine was in a Midget and even though it was a light car it was not very fast.

Best bet is to forget the 1500 and get a 1275.

Post by **Matt** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 12:17 pm

the 1275 midget preform very similarly to the 1500's due to the 1500 being a rubbish engine

Post by **Cam** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 2:44 pm

Yes, I think there's only about 1 BHP between them!

Post by **salty_monk** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 6:04 pm

So that's pretty sefinitive then; shall we say it again one more to be sure.....

All together now... " the 1500 is a rubbish engine"...

Post by **Matt** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 6:32 pm

can we continue slagging off this engine? afterall its a triumph engine!

Post by **Kevin** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 6:38 pm

So is the Marina 1300 gearbox and thats even nearer to Minor history

Post by **Robins** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 8:48 pm

Wow there Matt, sounded like you were dishing the Triumph. I know with you being an MG owner it's in your nature, but aswell as moggies I'm also a Triumph owner, so save your slagging off Triumphs for the MG message board, I might take offence

.
Fingermouse did say tuned 1500 engine, depends how tuned. 'Jigsaw' will help you build a hot motor if you are serious. With a nice healthy blue printed bottom end, a Jigsaw aluminium front pulley all balanced with crank pistons flywheel clutch etc. Over sized valves and raise the compression ratio on the head. A pair of 1.5 inch SU's, a nice 4 branch manifold and sports system should give around 95-100 bhp. Not enough, add a much improved & more powerful ally oil pump to keep up with the engine and its competition spec pistons, let Jigsaw completely port and polish the head, add a fast road cam along with lightened cam followers to let the engine rev a lot higher. A lightened steel-billet flywheel, and an aldon electronic ignition in one of Jigsaws custom dizzies. You should now have 120bhp. Stage 3 is a screamer with a pair of weber 45DCOEs, a race cam and you will get 132bhp. Although that will cost you a bit! it does sound good doesn't it.

Post by **Cam** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 10:27 pm

Robins, If you do all THAT you can pretty much get ANY engine up to that spec!!

It's just that the Triumph 1500 unit is not a nice engine (well in my opinion anyway) but like you say, being an MG owner too maybe myself and Matt are a bit biased! (although he is not an MG owner technically but an Austin-Healey owner

)

Talking of the 1300 Marina gearbox, that too is a pig. The 1500 (Triumph) Midget had one fitted and I had one rebuilt in mine and it was STILL a pig! Not nice..........

I'm sure the Triumph owners love their cars, but personally I don't like how they look or how they drive.......... but that's only MY opinion and I have been known to be wrong from time to time!!!