One day there may not be any Morris 1000s left on the road

Post by **Onne** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:07 am

It will always be a declining number (even though I have brought an extra one into the UK!) as they are after all no longer built.

Post by **Luxobarge** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:23 pm

Onne wrote:It will always be a declining number (even though I have brought an extra one into the UK!) as they are after all no longer built.

Not necessarily - the number on the road may increase as more get restored - for example I'm sure I read somewhere that there are now more E-type Jags on the road than there were 10 or 15 years ago....

Post by **jaekl** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:34 pm

All this brings up a more general question. I've been around old cars all my life. My father and family were car people so I was always around cars from the beginning of the industry. Local car shows and of course Hershey were regular events. As the owners grew older the older cars disappeared from the shows. It is also often said that typical hobbiest collect cars from their youth. But the question is where are most of the cars that the pioneers of the hobby restored and cared for? Many do change hands and are out and about and younger owners to get the bug but not nearly in the numbers and the use becomes more a hobby or show car. You have to think that the reborn vehicles that have disappeared are sitting in the back of some offsprings garage waiting for the spark to light in a younger generation. They surely weren't sent to the scrape yard.
Therefore, the best and only thing we can do now is keep working on your project and keep your car together. Enjoy it now and take people for rides. Not everyone can have a museum and not every one can be saved. Just make sure it has a safe place to sleep when you are no longer driving until some body else catches the bug. As for parts, it may come to a point where you can't go down to the village store and buy replacement parts but they will be available. (For the most part we have been mail order here in the States for thirty years) Also realize the beauty of the Minor is it's simplicity. It's one of the last vehicles with few very special parts or ones that aren't easily fabricated. If you have a will there will be a way to keep it running.

Post by **Sidney'61** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:09 pm

jaekl wrote:If you have a will there will be a way to keep it running.

Agreed. I've seen quite few letters in Practical classics and the like showing some of the minors left in Cuba, a lot of these have been kept as daily runners and just fixed with any parts that the owner has got their hands on. They may not be entirely original but are still on the road in good working order.

Post by **Judge** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:35 pm

All I would add is that being 'on the road' is not the same as being in someones garage, garden, or private museum. And as I said before, if the cars are not being used, parts will not wear out, so new parts will not be needed, so producing parts becomes uneconomic, etc. etc

Post by **Robins** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:50 pm

Yes thats all very well but the quality of parts is now so poor they will wear out quicker anyway, if they fit in the first place that is!

What is the point of restoring a car that has a short life expectancy due to poor parts quality, thats if the cars ever get finished as some parts are so poor fitting or troublesome it's not worth the effort. People will look at other marques to restore instead. I won't be restoring any more moggies.

Post by **Luxobarge** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:53 pm

Robins wrote: People will look at other marques to restore instead. I won't be restoring any more moggies.

It's just as bad if not worse with re-manufatured parts for other marques, believe me! No comfort I know, but a sad fact. I for one would rather pay more for my spare parts, if they were of much better quality.

Post by **Judge** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:06 pm

Robins wrote: What is the point of restoring a car that has a short life expectancy due to poor parts quality, thats if the cars ever get finished as some parts are so poor fitting or troublesome it's not worth the effort. People will look at other marques to restore instead. I won't be restoring any more moggies.

I think this, plus an earlier post of yours,

Robins wrote:I do even less miles than BMC, under 1000 miles per year

proves my point, i.e. that some people seem to prefer restoring/working on, their cars to driving them

There are still a lot of cars out there that do not need total restoration, so why do it, why not just use them for what they were intended, driving

linearaudio · Post by **linearaudio** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:34 pm

Here here old chap! Molly the traveller was bought specifically to be the daily runner, to replace the Citroen BX loadlugger which was becoming a liability due to them suddenly vanishing from the scrapyards.(new Citroen parts prices are impractical for a car worth £300 max!) I wanted a moggy warts and all, so I wouldn't get disheartened as that perfect finish deteriorated. Any restoring work will be done on the fly, as it suits me and my wallet. Not knocking the perfectionists at all, but just running on a different wavelength!

linearaudio · Post by **linearaudio** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:37 pm

Aah just noticed- 200 posts! Soon be snapping at BMC's heels

Post by **aupickup** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:54 pm

yes i agreee

as some of you have seen my vans, really rough at the edges but solid and some times not much paintwork

my car alth being restored, well i new boxing panel ans a couple of small patches and all new old stock wings will be my daily driver

i could have left the wings etc like they were, but eventually would have got worse so could not see the point of that

so i decided to have the bits that needed welding done and new wings etc put on as well as a respray so at least it will go for the rest of my driving life

hey who said u only got 3 years to go

linearaudio · Post by **linearaudio** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:10 pm

aupickup wrote:hey who said u only got 3 years to go

Only if someone cuts the wire to his computer

(or stops mentioning Wolseley brakes)

Post by **Robins** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:35 pm

Well maybe I do enjoy building the cars more than driving them. After spending all that money, time and effort though, I just can't bear to see the finish deteriorate, or have to use such poor quality parts to keep them maintained for regular use, i'm just thankful for my stock of NOS parts. But for me a moggie is not practical for regular use anyway, it's just a toy.
The point I was making, if the average minor owner starts getting repeat repairs more often they will give up sooner. If the restorer gets faced with poorer and poorer fitting parts and panels, with a quality so bad the finished car isn't worth much more than a rough one, and reduced to scrap in a matter of years, they will all give up aswell.
I have nothing against people that want to use their moggies daily, I just agree with the original question, they will become rarer in time, which does mean the value will rise on the good ones. As my trav is in bits and I broke my van, it's no wonder they only cover low miles.

Post by **Judge** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:45 pm

Robins wrote: ....., I just agree with the original question, they will become rarer in time, which does mean the value will rise on the good ones.

Not necessarily. If they are not seen on the roads, there will be no interest developed by potential younger enthusiasts, so possibly their value will in fact drop. And remember what happened in the late 90's with 'investment' cars. My opinion is that like an antique, you should buy what you like, and enjoy it. Never regard it as simply an investment.

Post by **grumpygrandad** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:49 pm

get it out and use it ,VW.UGH,grandad.

Post by **aupickup** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:50 pm

but we did use moggies daily years ago
of course they are good for daily use for years thats all i had on the road

Post by **Judge** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:52 pm

To use an old phrase, use it or lose it.

Post by **simmitc** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:16 am

For years that's all I had on the road

A Minor is still all I've got on the road. Perfectly suitable as a daily driver; and travelled from Essex to Plymouth (towing a boat), toured the Isle of Man, and driven to Inverness. As a friend commented last night "It must be good to have a car like that, and service it yourself, you won't end up with a £900 bill just for a fluids change". Long live the Minor.

Post by **Robins** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:47 am

My opinion is that like an antique, you should buy what you like, and enjoy it. Never regard it as simply an investment.

Oh exactly Bill, I agree there 100%, and I do enjoy them very much, infact my van is now my perfect moggie but just don't enjoy the driving as much as the building. If I had them as an investment Bill I wouldn't have spent about £7k a peice restoring them! Original parts are not cheap, I do everything myself, and no they are not concourse finish. It would be nice though to see moggies rise to a value of what I put in, although I do not intend to ever part with my cars.

If I think back to berfore the restorations, I did enjoy driving them daily very much. So I suppose the moral is don't spend money restoring just patch up and use rough.

Post by **Luxobarge** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:41 am

Interesting thread, this.

I note a number of comments aove about how it is getting more and more difficult to do a decent restoration on a Moggie, and how the supply of decent parts is drying up, and a view that this islikely to get worse in the future.

However, I personally find it strange to find such sentiments expressed on a Minor forum - with the possible exception of MGB and Midget, Mini, Triumph and Beetle, the Moggie has one of the very best supplies of spares and support - often much better than some moderns (try getting parts for some Chryslers, Mazda etc.)

If you think this is bad, then try restoring and maintaining a 60's Vauxhall, an Alvis, Arstrong-Siddeley or anything from Rootes, I could name loads more. It can be done of course, but the spares and support we have for these cars is the envy of may other marques. While taking whatever steps we can to preserve and enhance this situation, I do think we should also rejoice in it, and applaud those individuals, organisations and suppliers that help to make it so.