Brake Servo or Complete Upgrade ?

Post by **HUMBLEPIE** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:24 pm

Another question my 1962 saloon with 948cc engine, with standard brakes press and hope. I am thinking of putting a servo on it or should I go for a complete upgrade, my feeling is go for a servo. Steve

Post by **10852sm** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:49 pm

My 58 948 saloon has standard brakes and will lock the wheels on a dry road, I cant see why you need more than that! Well adjusted and bled standard brakes with good cylinders etc. are the way togo I think.

Post by **PSL184** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:06 pm

I agree with 10852sm. If your standard brakes are hopeless a servo will make no difference. Fit a servo if you want but you are wasting your time with drum brakes and especially if they aint working as intended. Spend (less) money on new shoes and drums and get them standard brakes up to scratch.... you'll notice a big difference then

Post by **paulhumphries** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:42 pm

New front drums made a massive difference to my car despite the old ones looking OK (think they might have been skimmed in the past)

Paul Humphries.

Post by **MarkyB** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:06 pm

Fit a servo 1st and then see how you feel about the brakes.
Going from a modern car to a Minor often results in that OMG

moment when it feels like the brakes are hardly working.
Even if you fit discs you still need a servo to feel the benefit.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:39 pm

NO - you don't need a servo - it won't make the brakes work any better. You need a brake overhaul - as others have said - in good working order they will lock the wheels. However - the later 1098 cars had larger 8" front drum brakes - and these are obviously better than the original 7 " brakes. So if you can get hold of a set of the 8" front brakes they will be a better investment.
Of course - better still are the 9" drum front brakes from a Wolseley 1500, but these are certainly not needed in a standard 948 engined car. And - NONE of these combinations needs a servo!

Post by **Peetee** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:53 pm

If you have spent decades driving servo equipped cars then the brakes on a Minor may seem so unresponsivve that appying enough pressure seems complete madness and/or totally unachievable Your brain will be telling you that the car will lock up and throw you into a ditch.. ou need the faith to give them a real hard stab.
On the other hand the cars brakes may well be ineffective. Your best course of action will be to get a Minor-familiar bod to try them for you.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:19 pm

Seriously - if the standard brakes are working as they should - the pedal pressure is light! Remember these cars were designed for and driven by Little Old Ladies !

Post by **MarkyB** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:40 am

A quick bit of research suggests a brake servo doubles whatever effort you put into the pedal.
It takes some time to re-educate your right foot even when you know what to expect.
In my experience little old ladies aren't given to driving very hard or fast.

Driving conditions have changed a lot since the Minor was new. Many cars now have discs all round servos, ABS and tyres about twice as wide.

Post by **Onne** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:45 am

Servo's on drum braked cars can be dangerous, as you are more likely to (obviously) put more pressure on the brakes, resulting in a overheating brakes.

Hot drums= no stopping

Post by **bmcecosse** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:47 am

Servos are available with all sorts of ratios - but the beauty of drum brakes is that they are 'self servo' to an extent due to the twin leading shoe arrangement (drive an original early Mini with single leading shoe front brakes for a frightening comparison!). When working as they should the pedal pressure is NOT high by any means - until they fade of course, but a servo won't help then either!

Post by **Peetee** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:01 pm

What I was getting at was that it's all comparative. Get used to a car with very light brakes and even a well braked modern car with moderate pressure need at the pedal will SEEM underbraked. I'm always putting my neck out when I drive the Zafira - despite having another modern car - a VW. The pedal action is quite different.

Post by **MarkyB** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:08 pm

Servo's on drum braked cars can be dangerous, as you are more likely to (obviously) put more pressure on the brakes, resulting in a overheating brakes.

Surely the amount of heat generated is directly proportional to the cars weight and speed ?
Stopping a Minor from 70 mph will generate the same amount of heat no matter what the brake system is.
My concern is with the initial feeling you get moving from a modern car and what other people who may drive the car may feel.

Post by **PSL184** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:36 pm

I have to be honest when I say that my "daily" moggie has very sharp brakes with very light pedal effort. My company car is a Mondeo with power assisted, servo operated, anti lock traction controlled brake system and I tend to lock the brakes on the Moggie when I first jump in after the Mondeo because the pedal travel on the Mondeo is much more long and much softer feel to it.....