Manufacture of new Swivel Pins

[COMMERCIALMAN]

I agree, its not just about the club supplying/remanufacturing parts or putting on a National event to be proud of ,its more to do with the fact that the normal Joe Blogs member of the club has no say and no input in the running of the club even if it has the backing of many members. A brick wall comes to mind. Unless things change the club will find its membership numbers drop considerably. Especially in this economic climate.

[bmcecosse]

Doubt it - Minor will soon be the only car anyone can afford - with free tax and cheap insurance - it's by far the least expensive way to go motoring on 4 wheels.

[jonathon]

Minors are only cheap to run if you have either a very good one or you are able to work on them yourself.
If, as many owners do, require the services of Minor Specialists or indeed any mechanic or bodyshop, then these cars can be 'money pits'. Not really a suitable choice of transport in the current economic climate.
I'd say a used VW Polo or Golf would be one of the cheapest options for A-B motoring as they offer years of reliable motoring, very cheaply.

[grumpygrandad]

absolutly spot on,,,grandad

[bmcecosse]

Well - as ever I was slightly tongue in cheek - but you still need to tax the Polo and insurance is not as cheap - and if you need any new parts be ready to empty your wallet! And it will depreciate - although I accept if it only costs ~ £500 in the first place that can be minimised if it's reasonably looked after.
Surely everyone works on their own Minor!!

[polo2k]

WoW this is wandering lol

Ive wandered if the uprightrs could have the botton drilled where the thread once sprouted. slot this and fit a pinch bolt then use an easily available ball joint with either a modified "foot" or some kind of adapter. (possibly 2 plates sandwiching the bottom arm)

And on the subject of the club; i agree with a lot of what is said but im of the opinion that if I dont have the time to do what others are then I can only thank them for what they do, im sure that there was somone organising the event who put a lot of effort in, I know i havnt thanked them for their time. Im sure that if they had put less time in we would have noticed the difference too. basically X Y and Z would have been nice at the rally but I wouldnt have had the time to organise them either.

[Judge]

. basically X Y and Z would have been nice at the rally but I wouldnt have had the time to organise them either.

As I've said, I did

[M25VAN]

Ive wandered if the uprightrs could have the botton drilled where the thread once sprouted. slot this and fit a pinch bolt then use an easily available ball joint with either a modified "foot" or some kind of adapter. (possibly 2 plates sandwiching the bottom arm)

I like the idea of an alternative bottom joint but it seems the problem is lack of space and then getting someone willing to make it.
I have just looked at some old bottom joints and noticed that the bottom SP thread on all my old ones is significantly more worn that the tops. Also the thread is a good 1 to 2cm shorter. Perhaps if the SP had a longer bottom thread and corresponding trunnion it would take wear alot better. This souldn't take too much extra effort to make, just cast the SP's an inch or so longer and cast the bottom trunnion the same extra length. Suspension geometry would be unaffected.
Question is if this would make the bottom joint last much longer to make it worthwhile and if there is enough clearance from the brake backplate.

[simmitc]

To make the thread last longer, what is really needed is GREASE. There's a nipple there for a reason. Regularly greased the SP and trunnion should last 100s of 1000s of miles. The problem is that many cars weren't maintained correctly, and so wore out. Of course, even with proper maintenance, the parts will eventually wear; and then we're back to needing the new ones.....

[M25VAN]

Right, I have had a reply from Tildesley's. Bear in mind that this is a rough quote based on size, weight and pictures, for a more accurate quote a sample leg would be required...

For 50 legs completely machined the cost is approx £66
For 100 legs £56
For 250 legs £50
Tooling (ONE OFF)would be approx £5700.
This assumes that some broaching will need to be done and much of this cost is for a broaching tool (?) that would need to be made. Cost of this is approx £1,300-£1,500. If it is handed then I guess the cost could double. Perhaps someone can explain what this is and if it would need to be done.
I didn't like to ask too many questions as the chaps seemed to be very busy.
Well there you have it, what do people think?

[nigelr2000]

Everything you ever wanted to know about broaching (well nearly) can be found here http://its.foxvalleytech.com/MachShop3/ ... hingIS.htm

[M25VAN]

Thanks for that, so would broaching be used to cut the top and bottom threads?

[Dean]

Broaching maybe used for the thread, but I would have thought this would be cut on a lathe/CNC. Broaching is usually used for keyways and slots inside bores or on shafts etc. So maybe the stub axle hole will be broached?

[alex_holden]

I think there's a keyway in the hole where the steering arm goes.

[bigginger]

10/10

[simmitc]

Well to me the prices for the legs seem to be fair. Given that the tooling is a one-off it could be (a) paid for by the club, with a rider that the parts are available ONLY to Club Members [Good for continuing membership, and a scheme operated by other clubs] or (b) amortised over the production run.

This is now moving from theory to definite possibility; and given that a reliable source of quality pins is essential for the future of the car, I suggest that it should be pursued with vigour. I repeat that I'm prepared to put my money where my mouth (or keyboard )but at this stage it needs to be moved to a commercial discussion with experienced negotiators.

At the risk of stirring up another thread, I suggest that the matter be referred to the AGM. I know that I would rather have UK made pins available than constantly promised but never arriving foreign ones.

[Dean]

I like your style simmitc. ;)

[stag36587]

Good on you simmitc, this is exactly the kind of passion and commitment that we need on this subject!!

[rayofleamington]

looking at those prices, 100 legs of each side (200 legs) would be £84.5 ea including tooling (maybe less if they class L and R legs to be one batch). With a smaller quantity, the price including tooling starts to get unpleasant.

The downside is that this quantity requires an outlay of around £17,000.
The second downside is that the club has no history of being able to work with the traders. Done badly, the traders would see the club as a competitor, leaving the club to distribute parts in competition to traders.
The third downside is that tooling outlay needs to be contracted properly - and this takes some skill/experience. There are nasty examples (Stag club IIRC) where a club paid tooling money for unavailable parts without an exclusive contract for the parts. They tried to sell the parts with a good margin so they could pay back the tooling, however other traders bought parts from the new supplier and could sell at cost price plus a small margin.

Considering all that - the tooling money is much smaller than I would have expected, and the piece part price very good for the UK. I'd say it should be followed up!

[linearaudio]

There's a fair chance that the tooling for both sides would be less than double that for one, as there would be common items, ie the broach for the keyway would not need to be handed, other tooling in industry often incorporates l&r functions in one tool if thought out right from the start! Can someone please create an emoticon of a smiley holding a union flag? We will need it at this rate!!