Incredibly Low Clutch

Post by **brixtonmorris** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:51 pm

i think that Paulg also has this problem. i think he may find extra packing nuts on adjuster rod to get over the adjustment problem. what this does is pull the realy shaft out of correct operating area so that the relay levers pull the shaft rather then rotate it.

Post by **brixtonmorris** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:54 pm

how did you do it, the nuclear sign.
ive got the real thing in the next room and if you dont tell me i shall bring it over to yours

Post by **rayofleamington** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:25 pm

well some of Brixtons posts were right!
My company makes 1 in 4 clutches sold in the Western world, and because I'm trained to give a 2 hour technical presentation on clutches.....
I should be able to bore people to death on clutches. However I got up at 5 am, have been at Customer meetings all day and I can't face it today

Cam's? comment, that if the bite point of the clutch occurs just before your foot comes off the pedal :- the clutch is well worn - fully correct.

Bite point of the clutch very near the floor :- needs re-adjusting and/or the linkage bearings/pivots need renovating / replacing (as already mentioned). Riley STILL has the same problem, but there's a rusty Fiesta in the way in the garage - Riley's adjusters weren't locked up as it was just for a test drive, but they never got locked and it has moved!

If you need packing washers under the adjustment nuts then something is wrong :- release bearing has the wrong offset, or clutch cover is defective, or (unlikely!!) clutch plate is too thick, or the linkages are completely worn out and about to fall off.

Post by **Scott** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 9:35 pm

Paulg,
It might also pay to check your engine/gearbox mounts & the engine/gearbox steady links. I know this is usually related to clutch shudder but sometimes can cause grab.
Is the clutch grab the same in reverse or is it better?
I haven't done too much investigation into this, just that my first Minor (in 1983) had severe grab in reverse & was perfect in the forward gears. I think mounts/steadies might have something to do with this difference.

Post by **brixtonmorris** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 10:56 pm

ray do many clutches come out to thick?

Post by **rayofleamington** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 11:04 pm

Ray do many clutches come out too thick?

I don't deal much with clutch production, but for mass production parts it would be controlled by SPC to the drawing. Not sure about small volume aftermarket stuff - a lot of it is done in a very 'manual' way and we don't deal much with that.
A moggy clutch would be AP Borg and Beck (although AP doesn't exist anymore in reality, just a logo on a box - the engineering was sold to a Chinese company last year, and the name / logo was already sold to Delphi distribution so they can use the name on any parts they sell. Find it hard to bite my lip when people say they bought a new 'genuine AP part' like Lockheed etc..)
The aftermarket and re-work clutch stuff at AP Borg and Beck didn't look tidy (crates of parts lying out in the rain etc..), though I never saw them producing.

But bear in mind that clutch lining material is a premium! Companies may be very economical with it?

Post by **brixtonmorris** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 11:39 pm

have you seen a laycock pressure plate ray. lots of spring "fingers" all the way around the release bearing.
very light and smooth feel

Post by **MrA.Series** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:06 pm

Gareth wrote:Come on Brixton, there is an edit button, you know!

Yes, but this way his post count goes up everso fast!

Post by **Gareth** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:24 pm

Don't worry... it's been noted...

.... spam spam spam spam spam ....

Odd that a post about spamming would be the one to tip me over 1000...

Post by **Cam** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:44 pm

Congrats Gareth - King of spam!!

Post by **paulg** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 3:18 pm

I don't know whether clutch was completely replaced - certainly release bearing and part with all the "ferodo" in it! Was done by a garage as I have no lift or pit and was a bit wary of fighting a gearbox with the car on stands! Only cost about £75 pounds for the labour so seemed ok to me.
All I can remember about the clutch that came off was that it has a fragment of ferodo on the clutch and a very mangled and oval release bearing. The garge guys were amazed it operated at all!
So I could buy the manky plate idea.
I do have judder in reverse ... and whilst cleaning plugs and checking timing today , I noticed that one engine mount is separating slightly - but the fierce clutch has always been a feature of the car even after new engine and gearbox mountings.
The clutch linkage was completely renewed after it started to drag. Again, no difference in operation as far as fiercness is concerned.
We are all used to it and 2 children even learned to drive in it!
I will have another look underneath - see whether I notice anything not as pictured in the Haynes manual. If it is unchangeable it is not a big deal!

Post by **brixtonmorris** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 5:10 pm

whats counts got to do with it.
do you realy think i care about that?

Post by **brixtonmorris** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 5:39 pm

there only number thing that i am interested is my original membership number.

Post by **brixtonmorris** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 5:44 pm

i dont know what your going on about "spamming"

Post by **rayofleamington** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:13 pm

Surely someone else gets that title?....

Post by **Willie** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 7:43 pm

To cut through the confusion for the benefit of the inexperienced,
as a clutch lining wears it DECREASES the amount of free play
at the clutch pedal so, in theory, if you neglect the free play
adjustment for too long then you finish up with a slipping
clutch because there is NO free play.

Post by **brixtonmorris** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 11:50 pm

dont know why i keep getting picked on ray

Post by **Chris** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 10:54 am

Yey, clutch is now sorted, cheers for the help.

But yesterday I noticed oil in the water, so it looks like a new headgasket is needed.

But darn those plastic debit cards, I go in to the shop today to buy a headgasket set and some engine oil, but I come away with twin air horns, and some nice chrome gauges

Chris

Post by **Chris** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 1:33 pm

k, I'm sure most of you have already taken the head off before, but I'm having some difficulties. Firstly where are the coolant drain plugs on the rad and the engine (and how are they removed). And also how are the inner studs holding the carb. and the manifold supposed to be removed, I can't get a spanner in anyway I try.

Cheers,
Chris

Post by **Cam** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 1:50 pm

Chris,

I don't bother with the drain plugs. Just take the bottom radiator hose off and let the water drain away.

The manifold nuts I undo with a 1/2" ring ended spanner. There should be enough room to get the spanner in. It can be awkward though. Some nuts you can undo a lot in one go and some you have to undo a flat at a time. It can be done though and it just takes time.