Not started in years, what to do first?

Post by **Mogster** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:21 pm

Ok, the Morris I'm buying hasn't run in quite a few years I believe, and my first job will be to attend to this.
Am I correct in thinking removing the plugs and pouring a little oil down the plug holes would be a good idea before I check/add fresh fuel then crank the engine with plugs out?
Also any particular oil any better than others or just engine oil enough on it's own?
If anyone has any other tips on what to do before attempting to start the car I'd be very grateful, thanks.

Post by **Dean** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:42 pm

I poured neat redex down each spark plug port and let it soak for a few days, then replaced the plugs. Stripped, cleaned the carb made sure everything was running free and topped up the carb damper thingy with fresh oil. Changed the engine oil, oil filter, re set the plug gap, checked the point gap, checked resistance in the leads, bought a new battery, bought some fresh petrol......... then tried to start it ...... and it worked!!!! Mine was stood for 21 years so it is possible!

Post by **bmcecosse** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:21 pm

Dean has pretty much got it right -but I would add the oilas you suggest - and leave for a day or so - then gently try to turn the engine using the starting handle - plugs out. If it turns - fine, if it won't - DO NOT force it! Add some diesel and let that soak in for a day or so, then try again. And repeat until it does turn without too much resistance - by hand. Then indeed change oil and filter, and crank it on the starter until the oil pressure light goes out - and then kep cranking for another 10 seconds! Then - new plugs/clean points/clean fuel pump points - new petrol and hopefully it will GO!
Expect the clutch to be firmly welded to the flywheel, and all the rubber parts (fan belt/hoses/tyres/brake seals) to be ruined. The clutch 'may' free off if you let the engine heat soak through for an hour or so - it's worth a try.

Post by **Dean** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:37 pm

Oh yes... make sue there is water in the rad? 5 litres it takes. ;)

Post by **Mogster** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:19 pm

Excellent, many thanks. Hoping the starting handle is present but if not would it be safe to remove plugs and turn over with the battery, assuming I changed oil and filter first, or would this potentially overload the engine and cause wear or seizure of components?
Dean, very impressed with your report, 21 years is some time for it to be standing!
Many thanks,

Post by **bmcecosse** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:23 pm

If no starting handle - just use your hands (wear gloves) on the pulley - it should turn over really easily with no plugs in, and of course there's no chance of it starting or kicking back on you! However starting handle is an essential thing (esp as it's also the wheelbrace/jack handle) and as there is one on ebay at the moment, if you don't have one - buy it!

Post by **Dean** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:18 pm

Cheers Mogster. One thing I forgot to add is, I turned the engine over by hand too just using the belt and pulley.... it isn't too tough to do. I put a wooden dowel down the spark plug hole and turned it over by hand until two pistons were at the top. I then filled these two ports with redex.... this then ensured it covered the valves. After two days, turned it over by hand again until the other two were top... filled with redex.

It didn't start first time.. but I could hear it firing, just not quite enough to keep it running on its own. After adjusting the mixture on the carb it eventually fired up, the moggy celebrated by covering me with burnt black smelly redex as I got out the car!!!

Post by **Kevin** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:00 am

I then filled these two ports with redex.... this then ensured it covered the valves. After two days, turned it over by hand again until the other two were top... filled with redex.

Each to his own but if you can turn the engine over by hand I dont see how the redex made much difference as everthing was free and moving, I would check for a spark next (good battery obviously) if that was ok some fresh petrol and give it a go, did this with a pal a couple of years ago and the only issue was the old petrol which had become surprisingly thick and stank like nothing else and with the fresh fuel it started on the 4th of 5th go its always worth trying the simply way first as you have nothing to lose, and also check it has got some oil in it.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:50 pm

The redex would help to free off any stuck rings - it's not a bad idea if time is available - but diesel fuel does the same job, some say it's better! Certainly cheaper.

Post by **alanworland** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:27 pm

I used to 'Redex' our vehicles every now and then - with the engine ticking over I would inject approx 100ml into the inlet manifold fast enough to just keep the engine running without stalling. I thought this was a good way of loosening/removing carbon deposits.
Not sure if it did, but the smoke was HORRENDOUS, I reckon these days I would get arrested!

Post by **Mogster** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:06 pm

Kevin wrote:
I then filled these two ports with redex.... this then ensured it covered the valves. After two days, turned it over by hand again until the other two were top... filled with redex.
Each to his own but if you can turn the engine over by hand I dont see how the redex made much difference as everthing was free and moving, I would check for a spark next (good battery obviously) if that was ok some fresh petrol and give it a go, did this with a pal a couple of years ago and the only issue was the old petrol which had become surprisingly thick and stank like nothing else and with the fresh fuel it started on the 4th of 5th go its always worth trying the simply way first as you have nothing to lose, and also check it has got some oil in it.

Well, good news is the eagle has landed and the Morris is siting in my garage. Bad news is there appears to be no starting handle but off to see if I can find it floating round somewhere in the boot hopefully. I'll have a million and one question soon enough about all kinds of things I have found/will find!
Meanwhile I'm off to get the plugs out and put some Redex down the holes, wish me luck!
I'll try and turn over using belt and pulley and hope for the best!

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:52 pm

Good luck! Should turn easily by hand - if not - take the fan belt off, the alternator/dynamo/water pump sometimes sticks.
The old trick with the Redex in the running engine - was good, for Redex sales, and not much else!

Post by **Mogster** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:49 pm

Wahey! Took plugs out and turned pulley/belt etc and hoped for the best. Bit dark in the garage so used a torch, couldn't see too much so tried a large nail (gently I promise) down two of the plug holes and turned pulley etc by hand: Eureka! turnability without the need for Redex so quite pleased to put it mildy

Rightly or wrongly I put a little Redex down each plug hole anyhow, working on the basis it will work it's way in and act as a temporary lubrication.
Topped up water (as suggested by someone above, thanks) and then remember last owner saying the rad leaked as it flooded the garage floor! Also discovered what I would think is the water pump leaking (sort of central-near top of rad and behind it if that makes sense?) but doesn't look too bad a job and as rad knackered anyhow might as well do both jobs together.
Tomorrow I'll drain the oil and refresh with new and filter too if I can get one then I'll ponder trying to start it sometime. No sign of a starting handle so will trawl eBay or post a 'wanted' ad on here and I'll try and see if I need anything else whilst I'm there. Take it hoses still available as one looks very brittle?
Once again thanks for the help and encouragement so far, had my lad out with me who wants to be a mechanic when he leaves school so a good education for us both!

Post by **Dean** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:29 pm

You are right, hoses are plentiful at the suppliers, replace any that look dodgy ;) . I had a small leak behind the water pump too, but after I finally got the engine running the heat from the engine must have re-sealed it as I no longer have a leak. So yours may be the same.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:45 pm

Replace ALL the hoses -including the little by-pass hose at the water pump which is likely to be your 'leak' . Yes - the redex (or any oil really) down the bores is ideal. Remember to crank it for ages until the oil pressure light goes out - then continue for another 5 seconds to put oil round the bearings. New petrol, clean points/plugs etc - no reason it won't start!

Post by **Mogster** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 9:19 am

Brilliant, many thanks. Oddly enough bmcecosse that small pipe you mentioned was very wet and we wondered if it was the cause but thought it wasn't as the pipe was so small and the leak was a fair size! Iirc the pipe is only about one inch or so long. Have cleaned plugs, will have a look at the point today if I get a chance: I'm not overly confident of my ability to put them back in correctly though and not knacker them up somehow so will weigh the job up carefully beforehand.
The carb oil pot seems to have enough oil in incidentally and it looks nice and clean so trusting that will be ok.
Can I crank the engine for ages with the plugs in or should I remove them? I'm thinking I'd need to have the ignition on to see that the oil light goes out so obviously I don't want to accidentally start the car before it's ready?
Thanks and regards

Post by **Dean** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 9:35 am

Yes you will need the ignition on, but with the plugs out it won't start ;) . Taking the plugs out will make it easier to turn over too, as there will be no compression. Label them up too as you need to know which plug and lead goes to which cylinder, this is important.

Any car spares place will have the small hose you need, they cost about £2 (make sure you get the jubilee clips with it too). Cover it with plenty of washing up liquid first, it is a very fiddly hose to replace, you may feel the need to swear a few times while attempting to do it, but if it needs replacing it needs to be done

. If you do feel the need to swear, either swear or if kids are around, turn around walk away and take deep breathes. Punch your cupped fist into an open palm a few times and growl like a weight lifter does before attempting a lift (incredible hulk pose optional)... this usually helps a little, it did for me any way!

Do the same thing when cranking it over by hand

.

Post by **Mogster** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:13 am

Hahaha, I'm pretty conversed in the art of swearing now as have owned Citroen BXs for a few years! I asked about taking the plugs out because I didn't want the car to start so will whizz them out again. Oh, just been trawling eBay to see what's about and quite impressed with the range of bits available and I have window shopped a few bits already, especially service kits which seem reasonably priced.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:04 am

I doubt you will ever get oil pressure cranking the engine by hand - it really needs whizzing over on the starter motor (use jump leads from a running car to keep the battery up) with the plugs out. Then - after letting the battery recover, pop the plugs in pour a little petrol down the carb intake - and try for a start!

Post by **Mogster** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:46 am

That's great because due to lack of starting handle (for now) it would actually be easier to turn over via battery. Now, another quick question (you'll be sick of me before you know it!) carb intake on top of carb somewhere I presume? Thanks.