Rebuilding Riley 1.5 Wheel Cylinders

[chrisd87]

I've had a set of Riley 1.5 front brakes sitting in my garage for nearly a year now, and have decided I really need to get around to fitting them!

The wheel cylinders need rebuilding before I fit them. However I'm not especially sure how they all go together as the construction seems rather different to all the other brakes I've ever worked on.

This is the basic construction of the cylinders:


These are the seals supplied in the rebuild kit:


This is how I reckon it should go together:


Problem is the inner seal seems impossibly tight and I can't see how it would be able to move very easily, which leads me to think I'm doing something wrong. Does anyone have any experience of rebuilding these cylinders? Also does anybody know where I can get new/recon parts for these brakes (the bore on one of the cylinders is a bit scored)?

[bmcecosse]

Not sure abour Riley cylinders -my experience is all with Wolseley brakes which are slightly different. How do these cylinders compare to Minor cylinders for fixing to the backplate ? I can tell you that Wolseley brakes fitted with the slightly larger bore Minor cylinders make very powerful brakes - with light pedal pressure. Reports I have on Riley brakes are that the pedal pressures are very high, and so I would investigate the possibility of fitting Minor cylinders - which of course are cheap and plentiful. I understand Riley parts are both scarce and expensive!

[IslipMinor]

The Riley front cylinders have a 3/4" diameter bore, the Wolesley are 0.8" and the Minor are 15/16".

For a drum-braked set-up the best way, as BMC says, is to fit the Wolesley 9" brakes, but with Minor wheel cylinders, which apparently can be fitted quite easily?

The Riley and standard Wolesley cylinders will give a higher pedal pressure than the later Minor 8" brakes.

Have you tried contacting the Riley Owners Club?

[bmcecosse]

The Riley drums have HUGE shoes - and will give excellent braking if Minor cylinders can be made to fit. However I have yet to induce any fade whatsoever on my W brakes despite spirited driving in hilly countryside - although sadly no track use !

[IslipMinor]

Yes, the Riley shoes are a monstrous 2 1/4" wide (still 9" diameter, the same as the Wolesley).

[Peetee]

Yes, the Riley shoes are a monstrous 2 1/4" wide (still 9" diameter, the same as the Wolesley).

These will surely widen the track on a Minor. What will this do to the handling if the rear track isn't changed to suite?

[IslipMinor]

I think the extra width on the Riley is taken inwards by using a differently shaped back plate, but increasing the front track by more than the back does not necessarily have any negative effect on the handling.

The front track on our Minor is almost 4" more than 'standard', and is a combination of the lower wishbone spaced out to compensate for the suspension being lowered and to give a hint of negative camber, using Midget disc brake hubs and wider wheels that have more outset than standard. The rear is increased by almost 3" as it is only the wheels that have changed.

[bmcecosse]

The Riley or Wolseley brake conversions make no change to the tracking of the car. The car looks and handles absolutely the same. Obviously the 'unsprung weight' is increased - hence adding on tele dampers is a good idea but by no means essential.

[chrisd87]

Hmm, interesting stuff. I would have preferred Wolseley brakes but this Riley set came up at a good price so I bought them instead.

Think what I'm going to have to do is just take the plunge, rebuild the cylinders in the way that seems most obvious to me and fit the brakes. Then take it down the road, press the pedal and see if it stops!

Pedal pressure is one of the things I'm slightly concerned about but I might end up fitting a servo if they're too bad.

[bmcecosse]

I think you have the assembly order correct in your picture. But fitting a servo is a bit of a task - if Minor cylinders could be fitted, that would be very much better and probably avoid the need for the servo!

[alex_holden]

There's no way you could fit Minor (Lockheed) cylinders to the Riley (Girling) brakes without massively modifying the cylinders, shoes and backplates - they are totally different systems.

I'm thinking about selling my (unfitted) Riley brakes and looking around for a second Wolseley set to put on Fenchurch. The trouble is, like Chris I discovered that the Wolseleys are actually scarcer than the Rileys, possibly due to Minor owners snapping them up (I found my W brakes after I had already bought the R set).

[bmcecosse]

Interesting you should say that Alex - could you maybe post up a pic of a Riley backplate - to see why Minor cylinders can't be fitted ? They don't look all that different to the Riley cylinder shown at the start of this thread.
Glad you are pleased with your W brakes.

[IslipMinor]

This is a Wolseley spares specialist - might have some front brakes?

Andy Bradley
2 Purberry Grove, Ewell, Surrey, KT17 1LU.
Tel: 020 8393 2194, Mobile: 07860 360690

[chrisd87]

For comparison, I've taken some photos.







As you can see the mounting for the wheel cylinders is completely different. The slot is much wider on the Riley backplate than the Minor one and the holes are in a different place. I don't think the Riley plate could be adapted to take the Minor cylinders without quite a lot of work, sadly.

Thanks for that info Richard.

[alex_holden]

The Girling cylinders are also physically quite a bit smaller and the link to the shoes is different (eg. no adjuster between the shoe and the piston).

[millerman]

At this rate you ought to fit discs

[IslipMinor]

There we were having a sensible discussion about upgrading drums and now changing to discs is suggested - just wait until BMC reads it!!!

[alex_holden]

Chris, I just took one of my NOS Riley cylinders apart to take this photo of the assembly order for you:<br>

Remember to lubricate the bore with plenty of fresh brake fluid when you assemble it.

I bought my NOS cylinders from Earlpart.

[chrisd87]

Ta for that Alex, looks like it does go together the way I thought then.

[bmcecosse]

Looks possible to me! It will depend if the existing holes can be used, but assuming not - then weld up where necessary and drill new holes and/or slot. Could use the existing 'cam' adjusters - although I would prefer to use snails. - mine are from my old 8" set and seem to work fine with the W brakes.