New To Welding

Post by **vulcan72** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 5:53 pm

James is the £40 a one off payment for the bottle or annual?

Cam sorry i didn't explain very well the advice i was given was (as a beginer) its better to weld with the co2/argon mix because its more forgiving.

vulc

Post by **Alec** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 6:15 pm

Hello Mof,
I don't know how much work on your cars you anticipate. What I suggest if you are doing more than just the occasional job, is that there is a more versatile way:- oxy\acetylene welding equipment. I, personally, wouldn't have a MIG set as a gift as it is rather limited in it's applications. Perhaps those who use them could tell me how they get on with vertical and overhead welds, very common car repair jobs.
Pros, you can braze, repair radiators, free seized and corroded fasteners, bend thick steel by heating it, easily remedy blowholes, make a nice flat join in outer body panels that requires little or no grinding and is soft for dressing the panel after. The biggest disadvantage is the distortion that you get especially on flat panels. And it is more expensive than a basic MIG set.

just a few thoughts.

Alec

Post by **rayofleamington** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 6:30 pm

Vertical welds - quite easy

Filling in blow holes - extremely easy! - just turn the mig settings low and use short bursts. Turn it back up and go over the top when the hole is filled.
To put small patches, and joints in bodywork (like the joint of the quarter panel to sill on a 2 door), get someone to hold a wet clot on the nearby painted area and less of the paint will be damaged, unlike gas where the paint is damaged in a large area.

Overhead welds (patching sills etc..) - a prize pain in the rear!
Gimme a car roller anyday

Post by **Matt** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 6:36 pm

just tell them not to look where you're welding..........

Post by **s.richardson** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 7:28 pm

well lads ive got a sealey 120turbo used with pub bottle co2 which ive been using on and off for 10 years now [ not the same bottle] with perfect results it makes that lovely buzzing/fizzing sound when welding,steve

Post by **iwant1** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 7:57 pm

Hey guys and girls, just bought my first morris minor needs a bit of welding doing though, me and my brother need to weld in front and rear quarter panels he's pretty good with the welder, although we've never done a job this big before. We intend to use a mig, but gasless, with the special wire, dont know how it works. If anyone has welded these pieces in before some advice on the better ways of doing it would be grand. Cheers, Ben

Post by **elainemr** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 8:51 pm

Ray, you need to do what I have done - become best buddies with your local garageman, and use his ramps for welding on a Saturday morning!

Elaine

Post by **les** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 9:52 pm

Just read this thread and it has got be thinking about co2 giving a stronger weld than argon shield. Is there more details on this, as I have a large bottle of the latter that I was pleased to come across, but do'nt want to compromise when I refit some panels. Is this a fact?

Post by **Cam** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 10:05 pm

Alec.

Gas welding certainly has it's advantages. Mainly flexibility (less brittle welds) than MIG. But there is a LOT more skill involved in using gas rather than MIG. For a beginner I would say that MIG is much easier as it's just point and click.

I, personally, wouldn't have a MIG set as a gift as it is rather limited in it's applications.

Ha ha, funny that, but that's how I view gas welding!!! far too much hassle!

but I suppose it's what you are used to!

As far as welding is concerned I don't personally see the limitations, as long as you have clean(ish) metal to weld to you can weld vertically, horizontally, upside-down or whatever with ease. If you want to braze, free nuts or repair radiators then I use a blow-lamp! although the cutting option with gas could be a benifit but I just use an angle grinder for that.

blow holes can be easily repaired with MIG if you point the wire across the hole and attack the side of the hole and (as Ray said) do it in short bursts so that the weld cools slightly before adding more weld to build it up.

My father has been a welder/sheet metal worker for about 40 years now and I always remember him using gas and stick (electric arc) for years, but now he swears by MIG as it is so much less hassle and it's a lot quicker than the other 2 methods. In fact it was him that suggested that I get a MIG set for car body repair as it seems to be the preferred method nowadays due to it's ease. And you can get some pretty good results too (with practice and dressing obviously!).

Ben,

I have not used it personally but I have heard good and bad things (mostly bad) about gasless MIG wire. Not enough shroud gas generated so it tends to spatter more. It's just what I have heard as I have not used it myself.

Les,

I don't think there is much in it to be honest. Certainly not enough to worry about affecting the structure of a your car!

My mate used Argon mix and has just restored a VW camper van and it's fine.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 10:12 pm

Ben,
I have not used it personally but I have heard good and bad things (mostly bad) about gasless MIG wire.

same here

Post by **James - St. Helens** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 1:38 am

vulcan72,

£40 was a one of payment I payed 3 years a go. I dont think the price has gone up much since. Give then a phone and they will give you current prices.

James.

Post by **brixtonmorris** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:02 am

i can recomend shiremoor compressors. great range of welders, single phase, 3 phase, i have compressor and welder from them. www.shiremoorcompressors.co.uk

Post by **salty_monk** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 1:06 pm

me too..... I've heard that without gas it's just hard work...

Post by **iwant1** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 7:18 pm

Yeah, it never looks so neat as gas welding, but me and my brother manageed to weld up a homemade go kart which was incredibly strong. I think we may have to do it that way, as our regulator doesnt fit the pub bottle we've got, we tried and adaptor, but we bought the wrong one today ooops! Can you get an adapter to go from a co2 bottle, to an argon regulator, i think its just the thread thats either external or internal, not sure which is which though. Ben

Post by **vulcan72** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 8:09 pm

Thanks James will give them a ring tomorrow sounds more like my price range.

tried BOC and local welding supplies both confirmed that the rental is 18p per day (£65 per year) but get this its£26.45 delivery and if you collect it only costs £9.45 for the pleasure.
you also need to open an account as the money is taken by direct debit.

i came home straight away and looked in the mirror and can confirm I DON'T LOOK THAT DAFT

vulc

Post by **rayofleamington** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 8:34 pm

£65 per year

Maybe BOC have special rates in the Wirral!?! The last price list I have (1st December 2003) states £35 annual rental for sixe X - including Vat it's 41.13
Size X one is nearly 4 feet tall so I doubt they offered you a bigger one for DIY

The £9 is for collection from an Agent or the 'tradequip centre'. I used to get mine from the main centre BOC in Wolverhampton directly - I'll have to look and check if I got charged more when I got it from Norton or Coventry....

Post by **vulcan72** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 8:58 pm

maybe the rates are different on the wirral....unfortunately thats where i live
the quote was from BOC Ellesmere port main plant today maybe we could be talking about different gas he quoted for FEROMAX5 its a co2 argon mix and the bottle is arround 3to 4 foot tall.
the quote the other day was from an agent and was for a 5 to 6 foot bottle.

Post by **vulcan72** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 5:56 pm

James thanks for the advice i owe you a pint or three, just got off the phone to KAYS WELDING what a nice bloke his prices have gone up very slightly but are still pounds cheaper than what i've been quoted.

thanks again

mike

Post by **James - St. Helens** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 12:37 am

mike,

glad that you got sorted out. I have had my bottle about 2 - 3 years and have done dozens of jobs with it. Thats means that its only costing pennies per job.

Don't forget the you will need a regulator for the bottle.

James.

Morris Minor Owners Club

New To Welding

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