Reverse Rims

Post by **benmagoo** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:51 pm

I'm after some slightly wider wheels for the rear (van wheels seem obvious) but I also want a reverse rim style deep dish to them and still retain the centre cap

Is there a wheel I can just buy and fit or has anyone ever spun the rims on van wheels before?

Post by **polo2k** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:10 am

DONT FLIP THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!
dangerous!

Post by **benmagoo** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:20 am

Not sure why its dangerous? I'm not talking about a cut and shut on the garage floor - just a bit of old skool roddin', engineered where I work

(Race car manufacturer)

Post by **polo2k** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:19 pm

I ment if you flip the wheel so the bit you usually see is facing the inner arch, then you will have the nuts on an unprepared surface, the bearing loadings will be insane and its doubtfull if it will sit on the hub right.
Probably best speaking to a custom wheel shop if you have the contacts, see if they have anything that they can drill to a minor PCD

Post by **benmagoo** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:10 pm

Oh god no, I'm a little crazy but not totally insane yet

I mean a propper job, spinning the wheel centre in the rim using the deeper inner section on the outside.

It looks like I'll be on the look out for some van wheels or something similar unless someone knows of an off the shelf alternative?

Post by **rayofleamington** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:39 pm

I mean a propper job, spinning the wheel centre in the rim using the deeper inner section on the outside.

you need to look for the less common version (LP936 I think) which is the LP917 with the rim the other way round.
They do turn up occassionally but it's very rare to see a full set.

Post by **polo2k** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:02 pm

AHHHH, i apologise (just so you know most of us on here are insane ;) )
The PCD will be the problem with non minor wheels. Ive got A30 ones on my minor (13") so that could be another option, you need different nuts though.
If oyur interested in alloys then BBS do some nice (semi retro) wheels, the polo guys quite often use the "pirelli P-slot" wheel and the pcd difference could be sorted with an adapter, or different bubs. otherwise there is OZ, Avez, brock, and a million others.
As mentioned above the PCD, offset and central bore need to be considered but dont forget that if your using any kind of adapters then you will add extra load to the bearings. If the mating surface is normally 1/2" from the bearing race and you space the wheel 1/2" then you will double the load and thus the wear of the bearing. If there are 2 bearing races then you get to do the maths twice

Good to see someone else doing their own thing hope it turns out well

Post by **minor_hickup** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:34 pm

Reversing the rim will do nothing as the offset is zero, for the deep dish look consider banding or if you can find some, minor developements 5.5j wheels.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:13 am

Reversing the rim will do nothing as the offset is zero

???
Van rims: The deeper side of the rim pressing is on the inside on the LP917. If it's reversed (as per the LP936) the deeper side is on the outside.

The Minor Development rims used to be 5J - if they've started supplying 5.5J then I hope nobody mixes up a set.

Post by **benmagoo** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:25 pm

Ah now this is the kind of info I'm liking.

So - I'm now keeping my eyes peeled for van wheels or some super rare LP936's?

I take it "banding" means to cut the wheel all the way round and then inserting a "band" of steel into a rim to make it wider? - that sounds like a challenge

Now I know why old school is so cool - the amount of effort / skills required means that so few bother its pretty cool when someone does.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:42 pm

If you are getting the wheels banded (hopefully by someone who does a good job!) then saloon rims can be used as a donor. Either you have both sides banded to get more even distribution but if you want all the extra width on the outside (not good for wheel bearings, and various other things) then just one side will do it.
The saloon rims are 3.5"
Van rims (LP917) are 4.5" (these have approx 2/3rds of the extra width on the outside and 1/3rd on the inside). Even with the samll increase on the inner edge these bring the tyres pretty close to the front trunnions.
As mentioned, the LP936 is similar to the 971 but with the rim reversed to give a lot more wheel towards the outside of the car.

Post by **jaekl** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:08 pm

I made a pair of them years ago. Minor wheels (At least through Series III) are riveted together. I then located a pair of 14 inch wheels that also were riveted and removed the center. The diameters were a little different so I sandwiched some sheet steel between and riveted everything back together. Using riveted wheels avoids the possibility of distortion. However, the new rivet holes don't align with the Minor holes, size and location. I brazed the holes shut which was the biggest problem. Drilled new holes between the previous sets of holes.
The only fixturing needed is a sturdy flat plate and a center tower to clamp the outside down wheel center so that the new holes can be marked and drilled through the Minor center.
Then run truer than some of my original wheels.

Post by **minor_hickup** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:35 pm

rayofleamington wrote:
Reversing the rim will do nothing as the offset is zero
???
Van rims: The deeper side of the rim pressing is on the inside on the LP917. If it's reversed (as per the LP936) the deeper side is on the outside.

The Minor Development rims used to be 5J - if they've started supplying 5.5J then I hope nobody mixes up a set.

Saloon rims have no offset I mean. There is even amount of rim showing from either edge of the wheel. Van wheel command a fair price if you can find them so if you're going to reverse rim them it would probably be just as cheap to get a set of saloon rims banded. 5 or 5.5j would make tyre choice easier. Minor developement wheels may have been 5j, I haven't heard of any more being produced and have never seen any for sale privately!

Post by **benmagoo** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:28 am

Now I'm intregued with the whole banding thing, anyone got links / pics of the "banding" process?

Tools and facilities are not a problem through work, my mate who has agreed to help me would probably be personally insulted if he were described as a "competent" welder and fabricator! He produces some very very clever and effective solutions from some very simple and ingenius use of his craft.

I just can't wait to get started with this

Post by **bigginger** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:39 pm

PM sent - as a mod, I can't post the link

Post by **minor_hickup** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:25 pm

There's a lot of rumurs and myths about modifying or banding wheels, It's probably best to speak to the experts, there is a firm called wide wheels, but i can't get www.wide-wheels.com to show on my pc so I'm not sure if it's the right site.[/url]

Post by **wanderinstar** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:26 pm

I am interested in the idea of fitting minor wheel centres to wider rims. Seem to recall Peugot wheels being used. Can anyone confirm that.
What wheels does Cam use on his 1380?

Post by **Welung666** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Cam's 1380 has Peugeot rims but he has Ford hubs.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 2:40 pm

What wheels does Cam use on his 1380?

Ford PCD, so either Peugot or Frod (I'm pretty sure some if not all were Pug's due to different offset helping with tyre clearances)

Post by **d_harris** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:18 pm

Can you PM me the link pls BigG?