Hello everyone, the sun is out so it must be time to work on the Moggie. Actually I've done virtually no work on it over the winter but I've promised myself that if at all possible, I will start the engine this year - it is a special anniversary after all!
Before I can do that, I need to replace the front chassis legs and tie plates - a big job. I have a chassis tilter so I'll have plenty of access but does anyone who has done this job before have any special tips - particularly around ensuring proper alignment of everything?
Thanks
Front Chassis Legs
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chickenjohn
- Minor Legend
- Posts: 4064
- Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 8:50 am
- Location: Margate, East Kent
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Look at the "Bluesman" thread on this he recently did a great job of this on his Minor project.
Cheers John - all comments IMHO
- Come to this years Kent branches Hop rally! http://www.kenthop.co.uk
(check out the East Kent branch website http://www.ekmm.co.uk )
- Come to this years Kent branches Hop rally! http://www.kenthop.co.uk
(check out the East Kent branch website http://www.ekmm.co.uk )
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Bluesman
- Minor Fan
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:55 am
- Location: Malmö, Sweden
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CJ - that wasn´t a good tip, I´ve been all over the place asking for advice, and that thread is buried way down now 
- so it´s gotta be hard to find.
stag: - I only did one chassis leg, but both tie plates. Along the road, I found out the car had been in a crash, rendering most frontal parts more or less twisted, which made everything guesswork when it comes to alignment.
In any case, I´d recommend you to do a fair share of measurements with the car level - this way, you know your car is true to begin with.
You will need to do these before you start cutting things out, and with doors and wings still in place. The front/grille is better left off.
First, put your car into a level position (zero degree tilt in any plane). Then measure up the car as per the diagram in the workshop manual and also note down Alans measurements from this thread:
http://www.mmoc.org.uk/index.php?name=P ... t=geometry
(I couldn´t use the diagram, as I had no true untouched points in the chassis. Everything was either twisted or badly corrected and therefore unuseable as a ref. point.)
After these measurements you will know if your car is true. Once you know, things are easier. Keep the car level, and start making your own points of reference:
Find your engine room centerline. Measure distances, divide in 2 and mark up ( verify by diagonal measurements where possible), use firm and true points like the bumper pin thread ends, front crossmember/damper bolt fixtures. You will eventually find it. Use helper objects (masking tape stretched between chassis legs or a piece of wood held in place) if there is thin air where your centerline is. You will need this, so just do it, while the stuff is still not cut out. The more ref points you have, the better. Don´t forget to take pics of (and docoment in writing) these points - you will need to know where they were when stuff is cut out.
Do NOT cut out both chassis legs at once. Not even both tie plates.
You will need the cross references the remaining stuff will give.
And you will need the strength and whatever stiffness is still in the chassis.
Finally, Photoshop is your friend. And the engine mount holes are too - do some direct measurements between the holes in the chassis legs. Take some diagonals to a fixed point on the othe engine room side. Measure in three dimensions.
I couldn´t do much of this, since my car was twisted. I had to guess. Check this:
Photoshop rotated to be level, and then horiz. and vertical lines inserted to see if stuff lines up. It´s hard to see live, much easier here. And don´t forget to check if things are level, too. All too easy to miss on a rollover thingy. Roll it back to level now and then - just to keep your sanity. I didn´t have a rollover jig, but got semi-crazed anyway just by the slight slope in the garage.
Take your time. Measure twice or thrice. Hold your breath and THEN cut or weld.
- so it´s gotta be hard to find.stag: - I only did one chassis leg, but both tie plates. Along the road, I found out the car had been in a crash, rendering most frontal parts more or less twisted, which made everything guesswork when it comes to alignment.
In any case, I´d recommend you to do a fair share of measurements with the car level - this way, you know your car is true to begin with.
You will need to do these before you start cutting things out, and with doors and wings still in place. The front/grille is better left off.
First, put your car into a level position (zero degree tilt in any plane). Then measure up the car as per the diagram in the workshop manual and also note down Alans measurements from this thread:
http://www.mmoc.org.uk/index.php?name=P ... t=geometry
(I couldn´t use the diagram, as I had no true untouched points in the chassis. Everything was either twisted or badly corrected and therefore unuseable as a ref. point.)
After these measurements you will know if your car is true. Once you know, things are easier. Keep the car level, and start making your own points of reference:
Find your engine room centerline. Measure distances, divide in 2 and mark up ( verify by diagonal measurements where possible), use firm and true points like the bumper pin thread ends, front crossmember/damper bolt fixtures. You will eventually find it. Use helper objects (masking tape stretched between chassis legs or a piece of wood held in place) if there is thin air where your centerline is. You will need this, so just do it, while the stuff is still not cut out. The more ref points you have, the better. Don´t forget to take pics of (and docoment in writing) these points - you will need to know where they were when stuff is cut out.
Do NOT cut out both chassis legs at once. Not even both tie plates.
You will need the cross references the remaining stuff will give.
And you will need the strength and whatever stiffness is still in the chassis.
Finally, Photoshop is your friend. And the engine mount holes are too - do some direct measurements between the holes in the chassis legs. Take some diagonals to a fixed point on the othe engine room side. Measure in three dimensions.
I couldn´t do much of this, since my car was twisted. I had to guess. Check this:
Photoshop rotated to be level, and then horiz. and vertical lines inserted to see if stuff lines up. It´s hard to see live, much easier here. And don´t forget to check if things are level, too. All too easy to miss on a rollover thingy. Roll it back to level now and then - just to keep your sanity. I didn´t have a rollover jig, but got semi-crazed anyway just by the slight slope in the garage.
Take your time. Measure twice or thrice. Hold your breath and THEN cut or weld.
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stag36587
- Minor Legend
- Posts: 1395
- Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:55 pm
- Location: Raunds, Northamptonshire
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Front Chassis Legs
Thanks both for your replies - great advice all round, thanks.
Looking at the tie plates, they are in surprisingly sound condition underneath all the oil and dirt - I wonder if I'll be lucky and able to keep them. The front crossmember is completely shot and the legs themselves are pretty bad but I can still find enough reference points. It's a great feeling though to be finally getting on with all of this.
Time to get the tape measure and spirit level out! Then I'll need to do some inner wing repairs too - very poor round the bump stops, otherwise not too bad....
Looking at the tie plates, they are in surprisingly sound condition underneath all the oil and dirt - I wonder if I'll be lucky and able to keep them. The front crossmember is completely shot and the legs themselves are pretty bad but I can still find enough reference points. It's a great feeling though to be finally getting on with all of this.
Time to get the tape measure and spirit level out! Then I'll need to do some inner wing repairs too - very poor round the bump stops, otherwise not too bad....
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stag36587
- Minor Legend
- Posts: 1395
- Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:55 pm
- Location: Raunds, Northamptonshire
- MMOC Member: No
Front Chassis Legs
....just one thing I forgot to ask. How good are the spot weld drill bits available from car restoration tool suppliers? Bearing in mind I'll be drilling loads I need something very durable...are they any better than hardened metal drill bits from DIY stores?.
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Bluesman
- Minor Fan
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:55 am
- Location: Malmö, Sweden
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I found drill bits made for drilling spot welds at a local store - and bought 3 of them in order to have a few spares. I have one good one left after all that drilling, so they last a while - if you drill at a relatively low speed.
And cheapish, too. Gotta be something similar available near you, too.
Cheers /Ric´hard
And cheapish, too. Gotta be something similar available near you, too.
Cheers /Ric´hard
= good bang for the buck.
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chickenjohn
- Minor Legend
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- Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 8:50 am
- Location: Margate, East Kent
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That type of spot weld drill works pretty good, although I find on the Minor spotwelds, they are not deep enough for the little nib to fit into. I may try grinding the nib off mine as it was necessary to drill a small pilto hole. BTW, Frost, Toolstation and Screwfix sell simmilar drills.Bluesman wrote:I found drill bits made for drilling spot welds at a local store - and bought 3 of them in order to have a few spares. I have one good one left after all that drilling, so they last a while - if you drill at a relatively low speed.
And cheapish, too. Gotta be something similar available near you, too.
Cheers /Ric´hard
With care, you can remove the outer panel for replacement leaving the good inner panel intact! eg inner wing replacement or sill boxing panel or as this thread is about, spereating chassis leg from tie plate. Saves a lot of angle grinding and gives a neater job.
Cheers John - all comments IMHO
- Come to this years Kent branches Hop rally! http://www.kenthop.co.uk
(check out the East Kent branch website http://www.ekmm.co.uk )
- Come to this years Kent branches Hop rally! http://www.kenthop.co.uk
(check out the East Kent branch website http://www.ekmm.co.uk )