Do you think repro parts needs improving?
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Well I'm going to be the stick in the mud & cast a no vote.
Well at least its honest
One of the most endearing qualities of the humble mog is the low cost of parts. Was quite a startling and pleasing discovery only learning that after buying the thing.
Ok to a point you get what you pay for, but it's a matter of supply and demand. If the demand was there then people would be making the stuff.
Fine if your loaded and into the concourse side of things, but for a daily runner the low cost of the maybe not so good parts makes them pretty much a consumable.
E.G. i rebuilt the brakes entirely apart from the master cylinder and all for approx £100 - and that sort of money wouldnt even touch one corner on a modern car.
Would i have wanted to pay 2 or 3 times that amount for something which does the same job and possibly only lasted a similar amount of time ? You know are those parts going to last 2-3 times longer? Doubtful.
Other side of the argument and one i can fully appreciate is when people are upset about chrome work, ok i hav a scabby trav and it will always b that way because is an honest hard working motor car in a harsh environement.
Yes I'd feel different if I'd spent many many thousands on a pristine restoration just for the chrome to start pitting after 6-18 months, but doesnt it raise the question if there is a serious demand then why is an individual - or in fact the club come to that getting a run of proper ones done by a traditional craftsman?
Probably because your investment would be better spent on the 3:15 at cheltenham or a lotto ticket.
It must cost tens of thousands to set up tooling and do a small production run.
Something just occured that the club parts dont get mentioned very often - just looked at the list in one of teh mags and it says NOS for most of it - so perhaps thats a potential supply point for those that wish to spend on better?
Shame that list isnt right here on the site !
Well at least its honest
One of the most endearing qualities of the humble mog is the low cost of parts. Was quite a startling and pleasing discovery only learning that after buying the thing.
Ok to a point you get what you pay for, but it's a matter of supply and demand. If the demand was there then people would be making the stuff.
Fine if your loaded and into the concourse side of things, but for a daily runner the low cost of the maybe not so good parts makes them pretty much a consumable.
E.G. i rebuilt the brakes entirely apart from the master cylinder and all for approx £100 - and that sort of money wouldnt even touch one corner on a modern car.
Would i have wanted to pay 2 or 3 times that amount for something which does the same job and possibly only lasted a similar amount of time ? You know are those parts going to last 2-3 times longer? Doubtful.
Other side of the argument and one i can fully appreciate is when people are upset about chrome work, ok i hav a scabby trav and it will always b that way because is an honest hard working motor car in a harsh environement.
Yes I'd feel different if I'd spent many many thousands on a pristine restoration just for the chrome to start pitting after 6-18 months, but doesnt it raise the question if there is a serious demand then why is an individual - or in fact the club come to that getting a run of proper ones done by a traditional craftsman?
Probably because your investment would be better spent on the 3:15 at cheltenham or a lotto ticket.
It must cost tens of thousands to set up tooling and do a small production run.
Something just occured that the club parts dont get mentioned very often - just looked at the list in one of teh mags and it says NOS for most of it - so perhaps thats a potential supply point for those that wish to spend on better?
Shame that list isnt right here on the site !
If only I was allowed to update and add to the siteOrkney wrote:Something just occured that the club parts dont get mentioned very often - just looked at the list in one of teh mags and it says NOS for most of it - so perhaps thats a potential supply point for those that wish to spend on better?
Shame that list isnt right here on the site !
Bill Hewlett
Web Editor
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alex_holden
- Minor Legend
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- Location: Burnley
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I think daily drivers need reliable parts more than show cars because they get a lot more use and abuse.Orkney wrote:Fine if your loaded and into the concourse side of things, but for a daily runner the low cost of the maybe not so good parts makes them pretty much a consumable.
In my opinion the manufacturers should charge enough to produce good quality parts. I haven't heard anyone complaining about pattern brake shoes, slave cylinders, hoses, etc. so presumably they're not cutting too many corners with them (and I would hope not given the possible consequences of a brake failure). If brake parts were even cheaper than they are now but failed after a few months, or needed hours of fettling to make them fit, would you be happy with that? Because that's the situation we're seeing with other parts, particularly chrome and repair panels.E.G. i rebuilt the brakes entirely apart from the master cylinder and all for approx £100 - and that sort of money wouldnt even touch one corner on a modern car.
Would i have wanted to pay 2 or 3 times that amount for something which does the same job and possibly only lasted a similar amount of time ? You know are those parts going to last 2-3 times longer? Doubtful.
NOS isn't a complete answer because not all parts are still available as NOS, especially if you need to get hold of something yesterday so you can fix your daily driver.
There's also the issue of manufacturers deciding to stop making Minor parts altogether if they're only making a tiny profit on them and are constantly getting complaints and returns.
Alex Holden - http://www.alexholden.net/
If it doesn't work, you're not hitting it with a big enough hammer.
I'm pleased orkney explained his opinion, well I haven't bought any chrome yet except for the bonnet hinges but these are stil in the box after 5 yrs so I guess that's why they haven't yet pitted, the wiring loom. some colours matched other didn't and even connections but on the whole I'm pleased with it, the thing about the wings is that if these were a better fit and slightly more expensive these would still cost less then the labour of trying to make them fit! Also how many companies produce chrome Bullmotif say they have their own but is this true or is it the same supplier as ESM and the rest? Thanks
Alex i can see your point 100% - but on the matter of bady parts/repair panels it will always be a case of cant please all of the people all of the time no matter what the cost or quality.
People are really quick to knock the quality/fit of pattern panels - mind you think Jonothan said recently that they were getting thinner which is a poor thing.
Lot of people forget that even on modern cars you get a pattern panel from the factors and it in all likelihood will be a poor fit and need some adjustment (not to mention thinner than your Grandad's combover
) .
Would imagine that even when these cars were being produced on the line there would have been a certain amount of fettling going on - I mean come on were not talking Aston or Roller of old kind of coachwork.
Even with genuine NOS panels shouldthink that very few of our cars have spent all those years unscathed, few dings, bit of distortion here and there so in some cases a NOS perfect panel might be showing time related imperfections on the car itself.
Frank as for the chrome - it seems to be the general concensus that its really poor.
Right I just got off the phone with my favourite parts supplier Bull Motif
15 minutes talking about chrome & parts in general.
Some interesting facts - chrome manufacture is not the same quality accross the board due to the manufacturing process being changed due to H&S regs !
BM do however strive to get the best available and guarantee it for 2 years.
Interstingly - why dont modern cars get made with chrome on? Because mostly it will fail through time.
Live by the sea? In a city? Near an industrial area with high polution? Keep polishing new chrome with abrasive cleaners?
(i know we have someone who works in a chroming place on this board so hopefully he might be able to add some wisdom to the matter)
Seriously guys ended up talking about this subject for some time and its blatantly clear that they take quality very seriously - after all they stake thier reputation on it. Sourcing new or better parts is hugely expensive for them but its an ongoing process.
As a sidenote too its blooming lovely to be able to phone a company and get all the info you want about something without buying a thing, dispelled my belief that customer service isnt complately dead !
People are really quick to knock the quality/fit of pattern panels - mind you think Jonothan said recently that they were getting thinner which is a poor thing.
Lot of people forget that even on modern cars you get a pattern panel from the factors and it in all likelihood will be a poor fit and need some adjustment (not to mention thinner than your Grandad's combover
) . Would imagine that even when these cars were being produced on the line there would have been a certain amount of fettling going on - I mean come on were not talking Aston or Roller of old kind of coachwork.
Even with genuine NOS panels shouldthink that very few of our cars have spent all those years unscathed, few dings, bit of distortion here and there so in some cases a NOS perfect panel might be showing time related imperfections on the car itself.
Frank as for the chrome - it seems to be the general concensus that its really poor.
Right I just got off the phone with my favourite parts supplier Bull Motif
15 minutes talking about chrome & parts in general.
Some interesting facts - chrome manufacture is not the same quality accross the board due to the manufacturing process being changed due to H&S regs !
BM do however strive to get the best available and guarantee it for 2 years.
Interstingly - why dont modern cars get made with chrome on? Because mostly it will fail through time.
Live by the sea? In a city? Near an industrial area with high polution? Keep polishing new chrome with abrasive cleaners?
(i know we have someone who works in a chroming place on this board so hopefully he might be able to add some wisdom to the matter)
Seriously guys ended up talking about this subject for some time and its blatantly clear that they take quality very seriously - after all they stake thier reputation on it. Sourcing new or better parts is hugely expensive for them but its an ongoing process.
As a sidenote too its blooming lovely to be able to phone a company and get all the info you want about something without buying a thing, dispelled my belief that customer service isnt complately dead !
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AndrewSkinner
- Minor Fan
- Posts: 349
- Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 4:47 pm
- Location: Ross On Wye
- MMOC Member: No
I had a new rear bumper (Fiberglass coloured inner piece and the chrome blade) I was very annoyed to find out that there was a huge gap at either end 
I Don't think that it will even require much to make allot of the parts allot better.
I have to say that I disagree with Orkney as it would be much better for an everyday car to have brakes/parts that fit and will be durable. Its all very well talking about savings but there is also the problem with the car breaking down?
Ok you might be prepaired to stick with the cheaper products and repair them more often but there are hidden costs what if every other weekend the cars off the road? what about if you have to pay for car recovery? how many times can you be late to work because its failed again? What gaskets, seals, nuts and bolts do you have to again replace to get to the broken part?
One of the great points about the Morris was yes that it was very cheap to mantain but the other great point was that they were so reliable.
At the end of the day I think you will save more money in the long run by paying a little extra for parts that are fit for the job.
I Don't think that it will even require much to make allot of the parts allot better.
I have to say that I disagree with Orkney as it would be much better for an everyday car to have brakes/parts that fit and will be durable. Its all very well talking about savings but there is also the problem with the car breaking down?
Ok you might be prepaired to stick with the cheaper products and repair them more often but there are hidden costs what if every other weekend the cars off the road? what about if you have to pay for car recovery? how many times can you be late to work because its failed again? What gaskets, seals, nuts and bolts do you have to again replace to get to the broken part?
One of the great points about the Morris was yes that it was very cheap to mantain but the other great point was that they were so reliable.
At the end of the day I think you will save more money in the long run by paying a little extra for parts that are fit for the job.
An age when roads were empty, machines were simple and every journey was an adventure!!
Kevin, I understand totally your point of view, but this opinion has caused the rise of inferior parts and the demise of quality ones. fine as you say if you are on a budget and working Diy, less so if you need to use a pro bodyshop who then spend an inordinate amount of time getting the poor quality parts to fit, this is not only for those who spend thousands on rebuilds but also 'others' on a shoe string who do not wish to, or do not have the skills to repair their cars themselves.
Most aftermarket parts are sold to the public rather than bodyshops, or garages, so the issue of poor fitting panels might not be being picked up to the degree that shops like ours are finding. as we need to produce high quality repairs day in day out this state of affairs is becoming a big issue re build costs, as hours of labour seem to be disproportionate to the actual part you are fitting.
For individual companies ,the like of Bully, ESM etc to re manufacture there would need to be a huge increase in the cost of parts,in proportion to the tooling and set up costs. Many re manufactured parts now will only pay off the production cost in 10 years time, so there is little incentive to tie up hard earned capital in such projects.
The major panel suppliers like LMC are really only interested in producing and investing in 'new' car parts, with the classic market being a tiny proportion of their production. With the fact that 'in general' most minor owners share Kevins philosophy, re parts, the word getting back to them is that 'they want cheap parts' so this is exactly what you are getting, its more demand and supply rather than the other war around.
Many independent Minor suppliers offer good chrome, from their own manufacturers. however the vast majority of parts are supplied to all outlets and are not dealer specific.
Most aftermarket parts are sold to the public rather than bodyshops, or garages, so the issue of poor fitting panels might not be being picked up to the degree that shops like ours are finding. as we need to produce high quality repairs day in day out this state of affairs is becoming a big issue re build costs, as hours of labour seem to be disproportionate to the actual part you are fitting.
For individual companies ,the like of Bully, ESM etc to re manufacture there would need to be a huge increase in the cost of parts,in proportion to the tooling and set up costs. Many re manufactured parts now will only pay off the production cost in 10 years time, so there is little incentive to tie up hard earned capital in such projects.
The major panel suppliers like LMC are really only interested in producing and investing in 'new' car parts, with the classic market being a tiny proportion of their production. With the fact that 'in general' most minor owners share Kevins philosophy, re parts, the word getting back to them is that 'they want cheap parts' so this is exactly what you are getting, its more demand and supply rather than the other war around.
Many independent Minor suppliers offer good chrome, from their own manufacturers. however the vast majority of parts are supplied to all outlets and are not dealer specific.
Ok Jonno I'm to blamejonathon wrote:Kevin, I understand totally your point of view, but this opinion has caused the rise of inferior parts and the demise of quality ones.
Seriously though yes i can see your point of view.
Forgot to say in the previous post that BM are just bringing out a new poly bush - a softer one, not as harsh as the existing, about half way between that and rubber apparently.
Goes to prove that some suppliers are actively doing stuff. Another thing forgot to say previously is that as was said to me earlier - the Mog on the road today is practically doing a job it was never built to do - completey different set of driving patterns, speed, stop start, etc.
Anyway i accept no responsibility for the state of the spares supply situation just because I'm an outspoken skinflint
Oh and as for why Judge isnt allowed to put the club spares on the site is a complete mystery and a shame - its depriving members whose primary involvement is here via the site of access to club parts !
Well to be honest in the long run we should thank God we still find parts for our dear Moggies but wouldn't it be nice that there would be a cheap spares and a more expensive spares for someone to make a choice! As I said don't know over there but over here they charge labour for trying to fit a part that doesn't fit so it's actually same price in the long run!
On examination of the hose, as far as I could tell it was one moulding i.e. not made up of an inner and outer.jonathon wrote:ahh !