New RHS chassis leg and surroundings (sorted!!!)

[Bluesman]

Guys - today, it was the time to rip out the bad RHS chassis leg. One drill bit, 70 something spot welds and some grinding later, the old leg was on the floor. Some fixing to do at the crossmember end (butchered-in homemade mid section), but nothing serious.

Now, most of you know (from previous threads) that this car has been "repaired" after some RHS frontal/diagonal accident. This has left most bits and pieces (panels) in the front of the car slightly warped/distorted and somewhat out of position.

For instance, the nearest point of the RHS inner wing is just 40mm from the damper bolt center (viewed from inside the engine bay), whereas the LHS corresponding measurement is 60mm. This leads me to believe that the inner wings (and subsequently the outer wings) have stayed in the "crash" position (10mm off center), while the RHS lower chassis has been butchered back to "normal". Sort of.
LHS chassis leg shows no sign of damage.

In any case, the offending chassis leg is now history, and I have the option of trying to correct some old "repair" errors.

So..I had this idea:

A) fit the chassis leg in the believed correct position - measuring distances from crossmember fore and aft, and making sure the eyebolt holes correspond, plus trying to make sure that both chassis legs are reasonably level.

B) Just welding the chassis leg at "known good" points - (middle crossmember, floor pan and finally under the firewall) and finally weld it to the front crossmember.

That would (hopefully) secure a 90 deg true and level front "frame".

C) TRY to force both inner wing sections into their correct positions (with a power jack/ram or similar, or maybe some homemade leverage or a sledge hammer and some timber).

d) and THEN welding the RHS tie plate to the new chassis leg. That would force the RHS inner wing at least to be in the correct position.

I might add that the LHS tie plate is shot (rusty from brake fluid or coolant) and might just as well be replaced. If I drill it out...the LHS inner wing can be moved and then repositioned, and the welded to the new tie plate (which is then hopefully in the right place).

The RHS tie plate is OK-ish (bent, hammered but still fresh metal), but the chassis as a whole perhaps might benefit from a flat, fresh new tie plate on the RHS too?

Now...what would YOU do? Your ideas about the sequence of things?

Lots of words. Lots of questions. And a picture to mark man´s victory over matter:



ANy pointers welcome. Cheers /Richard

[MoggyTech]

Love the V for Victory photo, a sense of humour often makes the job a little less tedious.

I like your plan, and that is how I would proceed. Measure everything twice and then weld. If you have stripped the inner wing of paint/underseal, you could also work the metal after heating gently with a blowtorch or gas torch. This makes any corrective bashing go that much easier. Obviously, a power-ram body worker gives greater control, but a bit of 4x4 and a lump hammer will still do the job.

Just make sure that the alignment of the problem panels is corrected so that there is little to no 'loading' once welded. i.e. don't force them into position, and weld while they are being forced against their will. This will ensure the weld is not pulled apart over time.

[Bluesman]

Yes. Thanks for confirming my thoughts. I´m a newbie with Minors, but have dabbled around a few cars in my day - I just feel that this one´s a keeper, and want do things as properly as I can with her. It is probably also the last car I will do extensive repairs on, so the end result (long-term reliable driver, no showroom ambitions) is important. Thanks for the feedback and the sanity check

Edit: do I reed between the lines that I should replace both tie plates?

/Richard

[bmcecosse]

I would do pretty much as you describe - yes new tie-plates, may as well while you are in there! Are the doors reasonably well fitting ? If so - you should be able to jack the front over reasonably easily once the tie plates are out.

[Bluesman]

Yes, both doors and both wings are still on the car, so I will check gaps and alignment before and after any bending at the front is done. I might even put the bonnet back on for measurements.

Thanks for the tips & cheers from here/R

[Spag]

For 'easing' bodywork, a bottle jack and various lengths of wood seem to work for me, though have resorted to taking the ram out of the engine crane for more 'stubborn' situations.

A small hand winch, or even ratchet straps can work well when you need to pull bits together too.

[chickenjohn]

Looks like a pretty good plan to me, as Moggytech said, measure twice, cut once. I would spray weld thru zinc primer on the flanges before (plug) welding the chassis leg to the tie plate, floor, bulkhead and the inner wings etc, and would paint the inside of the chassis leg to protect it. (Zinc primer, top coat with chassis black paint). Then waxoyl the inside to keep the legs corrosion free and make sure there are drain holes.

Other than that, good work, keep it up and post more pics as you progress!

[kennatt]

one of the best things I was ever shown was a home made tool for checking body and chassis alignment. It was a length of tent frame with a smaller diameter length inside so that it could be extended or retracted. it had a screw fitted so that the two could be locked tgether.It had a small spike at each end at right angles to the tubes. Now applying it to your problem would go like this .From say the rear spring hanger on the right hand side extend the tool untill the spike is into a known undamaged hole or datum point on the front left hand side.then lock the tool to fix the length.THen switch over to the rear left hand side spring hanger and place the other end of the tool onto the same datum point on the front right hand side(new leg).If it matches the length then you know at least that the frame is basically square. can also be used on the same side to check for equal lengths. If it dosent then you need to reposition reweld etc. Theres probably a comercially available tool But this one and the couple I made were free (If you have an old tent laid about) I think it's better than using a tape because you can do it without needing someone to hold one end.Just my small contribution Someone will no doubt have a better system Cheers and good luck with it

[Bluesman]

Ah, I love those tips. Thanks, all! The tent pin thing is definetely worth trying, and the preparation tips are all noted.

But - Photoshop can be a good tool, too! I took these pics today, and tried my best to shoot them centered and level. Then, in PS, I rotated them the final fraction of a degree, and applied some red level reference lines. Check them out at full size, the red lines are invisible when zoomed out.

Looks like I am in the ballpark, at least horizontally. Also, the difference between the engine mounts is so small; I believe it is negligible - the bolts will take it up.

Have a look at where I am, while temporarily offering up the new leg to the stripped remains of the front (big pictures, beware!):

http://homeweb.mah.se/~lurija/front_levels_1.jpg
http://homeweb.mah.se/~lurija/front_levels_2.jpg

And the miserable RHS chassis leg ...as it was..

http://homeweb.mah.se/~lurija/rhs_leg.jpg

Cheers /Richard (now just waiting for some good news about WW spanners so I can take the wings off....)

[Bluesman]

So...can I go on with it?

While I am waiting for the tie plates to arrive -
can I now prepare the chassis legs, the front crossmember, the bulkhead underside and the floorpan and tack, re-measure and then weld them together - without having the tie plates available for last minute measurements/offering up?
Does it look OK to you (see pictures) - is it good enuff alignment for the weld?
Thanks for your advice so far. Cheers /Richard

[MoggyTech]

If it were me, I would wait till you have all parts. It's a bit like trying to weld together a jigsaw, and if there are bits missing, well...

The alignment looks good, but without the tie plates, it will be impossible to tell how much fettliing is required to get everything lined up.

[Orkney]

You should get an award for bravery

[bmcecosse]

Aye - best wait for the parts! Must be a few other things to get on with!

[Bluesman]

Yup - lotsa things need attention - I just learned the WW spanners/sockets will be on their way soon. Cool - with them, I can take the wings off! Meanwhile, I´ll do some initial stuff on the front of the RHS floorpan(a minor piece that needs to be butt welded, nice training) and on the LHS inner wing (that needs an extension to fit the tie plate to - another butt weld). I´ll be busy over the weekend, no problem

Thanks for your support. Cheers /R

[bigginger]

Get penetrating fluid on the wing bolts - and apply more every day, then you may get lucky with the things
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[Bluesman]

Will do, promise - that´s 6 or 7 daily doses of rust oil before the sockets arrive...I bet they will succumb to my first attack. After all, they have been loosened at least once in 48 years, so there´s hope.
/R

[MoggyTech]

I bet they will succumb to my first attack

Oh there's always one that refuses to budge

[bigginger]

The upper rearmost, hidden away where you can't get a socket on it one

[MoggyTech]

The upper rearmost, hidden away where you can't get a socket on it one

That's the fella, often found to be missing on cars that have had the wings replaced in the past. No room for an angle grinder either. An air saw is sometimes the only way

[bigginger]

Stuff all room for one of them either. I've had to cut holes in the wing before now...
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