cortina wheels

Post by **KirstMin** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:48 pm

Jonathan does indeed have a vast knowledge of Morris Minors as do many others on this board. I have had valuable information from many users here and couldn't have done half the work I have without their help. I wouldn't like to say who has the most knowledge or who has the greater technical knowhow (and it certainly isn't me, I'm just a leach for the information).

Seems to me you are being a little unfair on the whole ethos of a web forum and in turn on a lot lot of people who are willing to spend their time helping people out. Yes things should be backed up by technical information where they can but users' also have to use a bit of guption when it comes to filtering the information - as with ALL the information on the web. That's half the point about these things! If it were all just about hard technical facts then it would be boring as hell!

Seach for Jonathans past posts and you will find much the same: information, help, suggestions and OPINION. His opinion is a valuable one on this forum but is there for your interpretation just as BMC's and the rest of the posters on this forum!

Post by **bmcecosse** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:24 pm

Dirky - Be assured that I was CERTAIN the early cars were 4.5" pcd !! But in the face of 'well respected specialist etc' I did have my moment of doubt!! It now turns out the source was anything but 'well respected' . Now I am certain again!
Feel free to ask me another anytime !

Post by **jonathon** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:38 pm

Thanks for the kind words guy's, but I have not entered into the discussion, apart form correcting the Ford PCD comment , purely because I was not too sure 9without lookig it up) if the early PCD were infact a metric thread. Quite a lot of the engine threads on the 803 and 918 were metric due in part to collaboration with the European military/ engineers.
To add I'm sometimes concerned that comments made on this forum can be a bit wide of the mark regarding, actual truth, and that some advice can be just a bit scary. Personally my comments are made from my own experiences and contact with other more knowledgeable folk.Lets leave JLH out of the comments from now on , no matter how flattering they have been.

Post by **Kevin** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:16 pm

Ok guys I hope we have calmed down a bit, now what I need to know from you is should I delete these postings as we now have some quoted information from another site which might misleading to the unwary as it contains faulty information.

Post by **Nadir** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:21 pm

Would be wise, I'd say - there's an awful lot of misinformation/opinion here.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:13 pm

Misinformation from the Mania site - no doubts elsewhere. If that's a worry - then yes - delete!

Post by **MoggyTech** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:42 pm

Another option would be to have a sticky in the Top Tips Section with models and standard wheel sizes listed. Maybe add information that is known to be accurate regarding other wheels that have the correct PCD/INSET/Hub Centric etc.

Post by **Kevin** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:09 pm

Another option would be to have a sticky in the Top Tips Section

I am looking in to that but just need things confirmed 100%.

Misinformation from the Mania site -

Yes look at the fuss it has created, a couple more votes and I will delete it, not so much for the regular users but more for the novices.

Post by **Orkney** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:14 pm

I vote keep until a definitive answer is found.
maybe an idea would be to have a new topic on how too's / guide too etc - in which you can keep locked threads until someone provides a difinitive answer to a said topic.
E.g. my oil filer problem - getting close to the definitive answer to that now - just need to do some photos and pinck axy's diagram and that will be that the factual difinative answer on that subject.
This board isnt easy to search result wise so something like that - even if it was FAQ's - cover also things like I'm thinking of buying a minor - to which people take time to reply and newbie post count 1 never gets back.
A definitive guide to brakes would sure be a good thing too.
Theres a lot of good wisdom here and be great to have a little more easily accesible for the less net savvy.
Sorry its a bit off topic feel free to move appropriately.

Post by **Dirky52** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:46 pm

Kevin wrote:
Another option would be to have a sticky in the Top Tips Section
I am looking in to that but just need things confirmed 100%.

Misinformation from the Mania site -
Yes look at the fuss it has created, a couple more votes and I will delete it, not so much for the regular users but more for the novices.

Fuss? or debate? I agree with putting a sticky where the information is 100% accurate. Otherwise there is only doubt in the minds of those who are challenged on their so called facts. Arguments can change opinions and that is a debate (not fuss). Yes, I have a right to challenge someone's statement of fact where there is no evidence to support it. I would be stupid to blindly follow all of the advice here as someone else as already hinted. If it creating a fuss to challenge someone's opinion by placing a world-wide published document (which remains unchallenged) into the debate then long live the fuss...it might save a life or two.

Post by **jonathon** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:12 pm

I agree with the last post. I see no problem with discussing an issue, be it a technical one or one relating to our club. The latter has been subject to censorship so lets not follow this route with the tech stuff.
In some instances there is a definitive answer but sometimes one has to be created due either experience of an initially flawed design, or a change of technology or product that might create an improvement over the original.
I would suggest though that all proven misinformation be deleted.

Post by **KirstMin** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:19 pm

And who might I ask is going to be the Oracle? One person does things one way and one person does things the other so who is going to decide which is the right way?

Are we entering into a new era of web fascism

I'd like to decide for myself and allow a reasoned judgement to be formed once you lot have had your opinion/say. This thread is perfectly good evidence for the system working - if missinformation is posted then people are quick to correct it - so why the fuss to remove things?

Post by **Kevin** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:45 pm

Are we entering into a new era of web fascism

Not at all Kirsten

if missinformation is posted then people are quick to correct it - so why the fuss to remove things?

The problem is that newbies often pick up bits of threads and take them out of context which sometimes leads to bad engineering practices being undertaken by the unwary which then leads to problems.
I am all for reasoned arguments as it often clears the air and can often bring a subject into the open with a good solution however the subject of wheel pcd`s keeps coming up with new posters quoting metric sizes equivalents that as you know dont fit and can be dangerous if used, which is why I asked for opinions as I dont think anyone wants dangerous suggestions left on the board as they will think its with the clubs blessing.

Post by **callyspoy** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:10 pm

so cortina wheels don't fit then?? haha! only joking!
just feel i started one MASSIVE debate! i feel privileged to have done so! i have benefited massively from advice on this site(mainly because i ask more questions then most (

) and debates are pretty good. in another thread ive been finding out which brakes can be fitted to a marina axle, and i think by asking the question, other people have learnt new things, therefore expanding their own knowledge. i enjoy the banter, and i think everyone else does.
I am a newbie still really, absorbing from the elders like a sponge, and i do appreciate the debates as they have enabled me to transform Impy into a car that i am proud of.
my technical knowledge is limited(as a 21 year old with no mechanical links) but you have all helped lots. LONG LIVE THE MMOC DEBATES! haha!

Post by **bmcecosse** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:58 pm

Indeed your questions do get us going ! But if they need to be asked - keep em coming! And no, the Cortina wheels don't fit - not even the early cars!!

Post by **Dirky52** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:23 pm

Kevin wrote:
Are we entering into a new era of web fascism
Not at all Kirsten
if missinformation is posted then people are quick to correct it - so why the fuss to remove things?
The problem is that newbies often pick up bits of threads and take them out of context which sometimes leads to bad engineering practices being undertaken by the unwary which then leads to problems.
I am all for reasoned arguments as it often clears the air and can often bring a subject into the open with a good solution however the subject of wheel pcd`s keeps coming up with new posters quoting metric sizes equivalents that as you know dont fit and can be dangerous if used, which is why I asked for opinions as I dont think anyone wants dangerous suggestions left on the board as they will think its with the clubs blessing.

This is a very interesting take on the whole set up of the forum. A 'Newbie' is obviously someone who has little or no experience with the Morris Minor. A novice who doesn't take the time to read of the thread. Not now and then, or sporadically but "Often." Then with wide eyed gaze goes and indulges in bad engineering practices being unwary? That is basically what is thought of the Newbie!

I just happen to be a Newbie. Nothing is known about me until I have made hundreds of possibly unsubstanciated mechanical statements and be made up to the 'Grand Minor Inquisitor.' But maybe, just maybe I have knowledge that could be very useful. Maybe my engineering background insists on factual and provable methods. Maybe this 'Newbie' isn't as new to the Morris Minor as his title suggests.

I think 'Mr Moderator' that if you are correct in your assumption that 'Newbies' are often pickers up of bits of threads (possibly because you may think they are witless idiots) then those same 'Newbies' should be very wary of any statement of fact within this forum. Particularly as the more statements of fact you place on here the further away you tend to become from being a witless idiot (sorry I meant 'Newbie')

Perhaps, and in my humble opinion, it might be better to imagine that there are some Newbies like me that may have 30 years of experience with motor vehicles, not self taught, (although there is nothing wrong with that) that can lay his hands on any data anyone could wish to know. However, being a 'Newbie' and apt to "take things out of context" my opinion based on facts and moderate experience is probably not worth a light.

I have been an active member of many forums from military vehicle restoration to Lambretta scooters and having rebuilt many from original data I have only scratched the surface within the historic automobile world. I never give advice only hard backed up facts. Sections of original workshop manuals (I have quite a good library).

But I will challenge every fact on this site until I am satisfied that it can be backed up with solid data. Then and only then will I use it. When I find that I am no longer a 'Newbie' maybe I will offer some advice based on correctness and not opinion, vague memory or even concensus of opinion. Its like maths, there is a right answer and a wrong answer and near enough is not good enough.

Moderator Kevin. I know you mean well and I wouldn't have your title for the world (I don't understand it for one thing...joke). But with all the forums I am a member of there is an inherent problem. So many self professed experts take any opportunity to add to any thread going in order to raise their status...i.e. get a rank; so that they may be taken seriously. The reason is that nobody wants to be a 'Private,' 'Pillion Passenger' or 'Newbie' because they are treated like witless idiots as you have demonstrated within this thread.

With respect, you have said as much by suggesting that 'Newbies' often are the cause of bad engineering practices when in fact it could be that the information given to them is unclear. I think the MMOC has a duty to ensure that correct data is substanciated and placed as a sticky (as was already suggested). Not a consensus of opinion but genuine original data for any 'Newbie' or seasoned expert to view.

Post by **MoggyTech** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:07 am

All well and good, but the Forum does state quite clearly, that information is not guaranteed. If all of the suggestions were based purely on available data from manuals, then a simple "RTFM" would suffice. However, in my short membership to this Forum, I have discovered the most helpful people of any Forum I have been a member of.

No axes to grind, but I don't want to see ideas put down, simply because there is no data available. As for posters spamming to gain post counts for promotion, I can't think of anyone that sad on this board. Conflicting personalities certainly, but then that's what gives life it's flavour.

To get back on topic, the link below should improve everyones knowledge wrt wheels and tyres.

http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_bible.html

Post by **alex_holden** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:37 am

Dirky52, is your issue simply with the words under your name? Nobody else pays any attention to that except as a bit of a joke - it means nothing except that you have posted more than a certain number of comments. The regulars all know that. I believe when Kevin talks about newbies he means people who are new to working on cars, not people who are new to the forum.

Post by **Orkney** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:40 am

Agree with Alex - this has to be the most welcoming board to new posters i've seen, people really go out of thier way to share any advice they can. Certainly cant think of any examples of post padding here simply because its largely irrelevant - there are a lot of VERY knowledgable people with low post counts on here, think its more a matter of some people have more time to spend here than others.

Post by **KirstMin** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:46 pm

Oh my oh my oh my! I think I've had the life sucked out of me and I am no longer going to use this forum because not every last bit of information is backed up by HARD facts and evidence

Am I the only one who thinks this is not in the spirit of discussion groups/forums? THIS FORUM IS NOT A TECHNICAL MANUAL!!! And people are advised in the T&C's accordingly.

Oh, and as has been prooven many a time: there ISN'T only ever ONE way of doing something. That's just plain daft.