hassle with the council

[steve4063]

well looks like i won't be restoring or doing anymore work for anyone now.

i got another letter from the council this morning with an intent to issue me with a prosecution notice to stop working from my own home!!!!!!!!

you give up don't you i own my house yet i can't do what i want from it.
i don't hurt anyone i'm aware of noise and times so i don't work in the evenings or all weekend or early

i make sure i try and sweep up every day to keep it cleanish

i know i have spare parts everywhere and it doesn't look very nice sometimes but hey it's my drive
so i now have loads of spare for sale and a rear end for a saloon i was going to make into a trailer so if anyones interested let me know

[chickenjohn]

Oh no! sorry to hear that Steve. I imagine the main worry is all the parts out front. Can you not continue in your garage with the door shut? I would also appeal against the decision and possibly seek legal advice, or move house.

There must be a nasty neighbour of yours who made a complaint for this to happen. ;-(

[alex_holden]

Have you considered renting a small lock-up in an industrial estate?

[aupickup]

what parts will you be selling

[paulhumphries]

I've gone though this myself.
What will have happened is they will have recieved a complaint from sombody.
There will have been a simple "drive by" to confirm if complaint valid.
That is then followed up by letter or even a personal visit notifying you that it's considered the state of your drive / garden isn't in fitting with the rest of the neighbourhood.
Tidy up and you will get no more trouble - this is what happened to me.
Leave a mess and another drive by will start the enforcement action notice.
My "problem" wasn't about the actually working on my own cars but rather the indication that was given but the original "informant" that I was running a small scale business.
Confirmation that I was just an untidy car nut was easilly accepted by council but they still insisted it must visually look better.
I've since broken / cut up many cars but as long as I tidy up and the front is clear they haven't bothered me since.
My advice is make an appointment to see somebody (rather than just turning up were you will then see whoever is on desk duty at the council office instead of the person that is sending letters / taking action).
Be appologetic (even if you really aren't !) as going in with attitude that you are doing nothing wrong as it's your own cars and own property will just set the wrong atmosphere so the person will automatically go into "official stance" mode.
Sit down and explain it's a hobby and you accept that it might look otherwise to others but what can you do to conform.
This worked for me and I was left with confirmation that being a little tidier would solve all the problems.
Of course having an appointment means they have to keep a record of your visit and what they advised you whereas a "general enquiry" won't.
I had a pleasant talk without any agrument as all they want you to do is conform so you contacting them is showing willing on your part.

Good luck as I understand what it can be like.

Paul Humphries

[chickenjohn]

Yes, paul is right, what you are doing is a "self funding hobby", doing up and selling cars for not much money. They cannot stop you doing that. Tidy up the front and do most work indoors and I'm sure all will be fine. Polite chat to the council is a great suggestion.

[paulhumphries]

Yes, paul is right, what you are doing is a "self funding hobby", doing up and selling cars for not much money. They cannot stop you doing that.

The way to word it though is that you are an enthusiastic restorer and enjoy that more than driving the cars hence selling almost as soon as you have finished one project you are itching to start the next.
Mention the "self funding hobby" will automatically set alarm bells as even if you make a loss if the original intention to sell then you will come under business rules.
Trust me I know what I'm talking about - I'm a retired Revenue Officer (H M Inspector of Taxes) and have heard the excuses more time than I can remember that it's just a hobby and not a business. Sorry but intention is what matters - not amount of money made or lost. A simple mistake in how you word things can completley change how official bodies view you and it's very difficult to get them to change their view afer you have set an idea in motion that you MIGHT be in small scale business.

Paul Humphries.

[MoggyTech]

You may also find that there is a section in your property missives about working at home, that is considered a nuisance to neighbours. Where I live, you are not even premitted to park a commercial vehicle on your property, unless it it is garaged.

Did any of your neighbours approach you before they complained to the Council?

I wouldn't give up if I where you. Maybe scale things down a bit to cut down on bits laying around. Sounds to me as though you try as hard as possible not to cause excessive noise, so it's possibly just the visual aspect someone is not happy with.

[Peetee]

Such a shame. You could try tidying things up a bit and appealing. trouble is the whole business of maintaining vehicles at a private address is very emotive and subjective. When does a restoration become a wreck? You can't second-guess what your neighbours will put up with.
We came across a cottage the other day, old thatch and covered in ivy. How quaint and appealing we thought. But there again, smash one window and, visually at least, the place becomes an unappealing ruin.

[Rasputin]

Tell the council that you are a recycling centre.You will probably get a grant!

[leyther8008]

We are turning into such a nanny state! grow a big hedge!

[chickenjohn]

-snip- grow a big hedge!

You can get in trouble for that as well

[steve4063]

well i had a meeting with the planning today

the outcome was that the letter they had sent me was the first of 3 stages
and if i comply to what they said that will be the end of it unless they get another complaint and they will have to re-open the case and automatically issue me with stage 2

so now i am not allowed to have anymore cars on my premises apart from my normal car, my boys car and my split which i can restore i have to inform them of the reg numbers and mortgage company and all sorts.....

they did say i could have 1 car as a so called hobby lol but am not allowed to weld or spray it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the trav i have has to be removed as soon as is possible which that should go pretty soon anyway if dvla hurry up.

so that looks like its it for a while folks i'm out of the resto business for a while but not for long

i'm now in the prosess of looking for a new hous back in suffolk/norfolk in the sticks which is where i come from and i can carry on there but that will take about a year so as arnie says "i'll be back" lol

he did say it wouldn't of been a problem if no-one had complained.

[dave1949]

"i'll be back" lol

make sure you are Steve, you do a great job to help the Preservation so close to all of us.
best wishes

[rayofleamington]

so now i am not allowed to have anymore cars on my premises apart from my normal car, my boys car and my split which i can restore i have to inform them of the reg numbers and mortgage company and all sorts.....

they did say i could have 1 car as a so called hobby lol but am not allowed to weld or spray it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well I think it's time to find a few more family members in the short term ;-)
I've been in trouble at work recently for keeping a few cars there - a colleague offered that I could transfer one of them into his name as he never brings a car to work

As for not being allowed to weld at home ... I can't see how they can make an issue of that. Welding equipment (e.g. MIG) is sold for DIY/home use!! Oxy/Acetlylene can be a problem but IIRC only regarding storing the bottles at home - if the bottles are stored elsewhere I think it's still allowed.
I guess if it was me I'd tidy up and get shot of the complaint in the short term and when all is quiet to carry on but more discreetly.

I have a lot of sympathy for you. I make a point of having the front of my house look respectable as I know that is important to some of the neighbours... Apart from that, my rear yard (formerly known as a garden) looks like a scrapyard and I work round the back and in the garage until 10pm.
I'm very lucky that my neighbours are tolerant - the old couple next door really like me messing with cars as he's been doing it for years, and the deaf old woman in the other half of my semi is happy with anything as long as she can watch her telly at full volume all evening.

There is probably a limit to how many 'project' cars you can have before you are at risk of having 'unauthorised waste' problems with the Environment Agency busy bodies.

Best wishes,
Ray.

[Orkney]

With all due respect Ray you should be doing your bit to clear up for your neighbours sake - you can start by dropping the pickup off here and I'll look after it for you

In all seriousness its rotten whats happened for Steve there, probably just one idiot making a complaint but what can you do?
My nearest neighbour as several here can testify has the equivalent of a scrapyard and an untidy one at that in his ground, i dont complain and wouldnt, its a neighbour in the traditional sense.
Plus i have carte blanche to scavenge what the heck i like, but neighbourly values on the whole with intensive housing have gone by the bye.

Your right Steve to get out of it !

[chickenjohn]

Yes, I'm lucky in that I have had no complaints at all from neighbours but then I only spray one panel at a time, only weld in the garage and stop grinding by 9.30PM. In fact, one of my neighbours is a retired engineer and occassionally comes over to see what i'm doing and sometimes offers advice or help! My front garden/drive only has room for 4 cars at most, one in the garage. They all look fairly respectable or are covered. Two have MOT's and are relatively smart.

Good luck, Steve. See if you can carry on in the garage (with less cars out front). I would be delighted to have a neighbour like yourself!

[paulhumphries]

so now i am not allowed to have anymore cars on my premises apart from my normal car, my boys car and my split which i can restore i have to inform them of the reg numbers and mortgage company and all sorts.....

they did say i could have 1 car as a so called hobby lol but am not allowed to weld or spray it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


so that looks like its it for a while folks i'm out of the resto business for a while but not for long


he did say it wouldn't of been a problem if no-one had complained.

I asked the council to give me details of where in the Town & Country planning act etc it stipulates how many of your own cars you can own / keep on your property.
The reply was it doesn't say but is at the discression of the person who is dealing with the complaint.
I pointed out my cars were MOT / taxed & insured so if they didn't want them on my property then I'd park time on the road.
That went down like a lead ballon as they assumed my cars were all heaps and not roadworthy.
They then backtracked and said no problem me having them in the drive !

I can understand why they say no spraying as there will be enviromental issues they can quote (solvents, two pack, overspray if outside, smell etc) but cann't understand why they say no welding.
I assume they are putting this in writing so you can then approach your MP to ask him to clarify with council why they are restricting your DIY ?
I did that and it's amazing how the council react when they have to do a formal statement to the MP when you've done nothing wrong and the person dealing with the complaint might have been a little too over zealous with their discressionary opinion.

I wonder it the key phrase is "resto business" as that completly changes things compared to just DIY.
If you are going ANY work for payment even if you aren't even covering your costs and actually making a loss then it turns your proeprty into one which business rules apply.
Without change of use permission (from 100% domestic to part "business") then I can fully understand the councils stance and the conditions imposed.

Paul Humphries.

[millerman]

Find out who your local Councillor is and get him/her on your side, they always are on the look out for votes and, you never know, they may be a Moggy enthusiast!

[les]

i know i have spare parts everywhere and it doesn't look very nice sometimes

There's your answer, sort that out and carry on out of sight. Works for me, I even repainted the garage door last week as a decoy!