I have just spent all weekend trying to fathom out the wiring on my 1963 1098cc and more confused now then when I started on fri afternoon. I am a retired BT Telephone Engineer with 37years of faulting telephones, switchboards and so on, I can read schematic and wiring diagrams, use both analogue and digital meters (lousey at spelling though ). But when it comes to comparing the wiring to the original BMC work shop manuals or Haynes type then I give up, as the logic of the wiring in my car does not seem to exist. It all started last week with a thread on this forum about gauges, so I thought to my self ah I have a couple I think I will fit them so far so good. In my 1960 948cc with a dynamo fitted I set about putting in temp, amp, clock and oil gauges and all was ok. I then started the same task in my other morris 1098cc with an alternator fitted ( this was done by a garage for its previous owner), fitting the gauges no problem untill I came to wire them in. Clock does not work, amp & temp don't work I know that they are ok as I tried swopping them over to the other car.
The alternator ( A Lucas one) has three wires comming out of the back 2 black going (bunched together) to one side of the solenoid and a grn/w plus a brn and a feed to the Batt, from the solenoid from an other tag is a r/w I assume going to the ign sw and one to the starter. On the bulk head is a small junction box with 2 brn & 2 brn/blue all bunched (Linked)together. I assume the browns are fuse & solenoid and the brn/blu are ign sw and light sw the grn/wh is the the ign warning light and the red/w is ign sw. Does all the above make sence to anyone as I cannot find any think like it in any manuals, and if so how do I go about wiring the instruments in. And before anyone ask's the car is neg earth
I would have thought that with your experience it would be easy to identify which wire was live with the ignition ON. If you connected your new instruments to this point then, obviously, they should all work. You
would then have the problem of deciding which of these instruments needed to be connected to the voltage stabiliser in order to have reliable
readings.
Hi Willie like I said earlier about the logical side of diagrams and the fact that I was able to get them work one one car and not the other and yes I was able to identify which was the live from the ign when it was switched on and I have left a wire fron the back of the switch ready to connect the items to When someone is able to come up with answer. What I dont undstand is why is ok on one and the other not hence the reason that I put the scenario to the forum I know that some of the telephone installations that I came across the installers must have used a dandy or beano to wire them up to just to get them working, I am talking about the days when things where wired in series not like today in parrallel. So long as it was working when they left it was then it was up to the mtce man to sort out the fault And bye the way it was the Post Office Telephones When I first started and yes I even had a moggy van with rubber front wings and painted in WD green although I dont thing that was the original discription of the paint
Last edited by jtd.75 on Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Only one that will be a bit different is the ammeter - this obviously has to go in series in the feed wire to-from the battery. So from that hotch potch you just need to sort that out - but it should be the feed wire from the solenoid 12V supply! Note this cannot be fused - and can be carrying up to 40 amps (even more if it's a fancy big alternator) - so the cables must be sized up to suit and MUST be very well insulated so there is NO chance they could rub through and short out!! The clock (you don't wear a watch?) just needs a feed at +12v and a ground connection, and the temp gauge - if electric - just needs a 12v feed when Ign ON (from the stabiliser if you want it to be half accurate - a mechanical one is far better) and the other end connects to the sensor on the head.
Hi bmc yep tried all that and nope still won't work and its a volts not amp meter. What I don't understand is why they will work ok in one car and not the other, both are neg earths and one is dynamo (ok in this) the other alternator (will not work in this car) gauges I'm on about I think in one car I will only go out in day light hours, wear a watch and carry water and not bother trying to fit the gauges
Ahh - you say 'amp' in the initial thread! Voltmeter is fine - dead easy to install - just make sure it is through Ign because it drains the battery while operating. If they don't work - there is something basically wrong. If you connect the voltmeter to +ve and ground (right way round of course) it WILL read volts !! Somehow or other you must be connecting them wrong way round.
well I am old volts it what I should have been saying. yes live from ign sw when on through gauge and to neg i/e earth is that correct and yes right way round and like i keep saying it will work ok in the car with the dynamo and not are the in the car with the alternator
You are probably not as old as me !! Amps is amps and volts is volts. So - it can only be that the alternator car is haunted! No other explanation possible. Try just rigging them up with jump wires first - even directly from the battery - to see what's going on! Are you SURE the car is neg earth ? Although I have yet to hear of a car with alternator that is +ve earth, but I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to correct me !
I have assumed that the car in question is in otherwise full working order regarding the wiring. i.e. it starts and charges the battery etc, Is this the case?
The bunched Brown/blue and Brown wires were originally connected to
terminals A and A1 on the control box so it is ok that they are joined
together provided that they also feed to the 'live all the time fuse',
the lighting switch,the BATTERY side of the solonoid,( I have seen the
brown wire connected to the wrong side of the solonoid)and the ignition
switch. The only Green/White wires are in the R/H flasher circuit! The red /white lead activates the solonoid via the ignition switch. I am sure you sussed all that out already but it just confirms it.
yes & yes willie she runs like a electric sewing machine, if you were working today will you would be waiting twice as long just trying to get through to faults (in Lahore in India) and try and get them to understand you or you them
for what its worth ... fitted a new indy stalk at the weekend, think it was only a simple 6 connections, but it wasnt easy. The original wiring was faded to such a point that it was it a numbered stickers on all terminal ends just in case job then work by process of elimination to ensure correct.
The new stalk wires (this was new old stock) had no resemblance to the colours of the old where they had faded over however many decades.
Probably not much help but worth mentioning and considering as a green might look like a black or vice verse etc over time.
Indeed Mr Rasputin - now I think of it - 11ac alternator could be had for +ve earth!! With it's 4TR and 6RA units - it was a relatively complicated installation! The later alternators are just 'plug and play' of course.
). But when it comes to comparing the wiring to the original BMC work shop manuals or Haynes type then I give up, as the logic of the wiring in my car does not seem to exist. It all started last week with a thread on this forum about gauges, so I thought to my self ah I have a couple I think I will fit them so far so good. In my 1960 948cc with a dynamo fitted I set about putting in temp, amp, clock and oil gauges and all was ok. I then started the same task in my other morris 1098cc with an alternator fitted ( this was done by a garage for its previous owner), fitting the gauges no problem untill I came to wire them in. Clock does not work, amp & temp don't work I know that they are ok as I tried swopping them over to the other car. 
I know that some of the telephone installations that I came across the installers must have used a dandy or beano to wire them up to just to get them working, I am talking about the days when things where wired in series not like today in parrallel. So long as it was working when they left it was then it was up to the mtce man to sort out the fault 
I think in one car I will only go out in day light hours, wear a watch and carry water 
and yes the neg is def connected to the the earth strap and been left BT 7 yrs now thats all I will say about my age