Ignition switch worn out?

Post by **Bluesman** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 10:19 pm

Hi guys - noob warning

- and I have tried searching for the topic...

Here goes: Minor 1000, -60. Been garaged since 1991. We just got it, and are trying to let it see daylight again.

A few problems remain (electrical):
a) the ignition switch is very "sloppy" - no distinct clicks/stops/intervals at all when the key is turned, and the indicator lights are very dim even with a fresh battery. Red/green lights only turn on at random places along the switch´s travel, mostly with key at at far right, though.

Q: Could this switch wear mean that the ignition coil and the fuel pump do not get the sufficient current? Read on.....

B) The distributor cap looks ok, points have spark when cam moves, points look good, rotor is in place, contact areas are fine, firing order is correct, resistance metering shows connection between distributor cap and end of spark plug cable....but there´s no spark at the plug...

Q: could this be a consequence of problem A above? Voltage, but not enough current due to a bad ignition switch?

C) The fule pump does not tick or pump fuel. External contacts are brushed and fine, I tapped it, there is 12V voltage on the terminal and a sound ground connection. No fuel pump action at all.

Q: could this (too) be a consequence of problem A above? Voltage, but not enough current due to a bad ignition switch?

D) The rotor installed in the distributor looks like it has a fair distance to overcome between the rotor cam and the distributor contact pins. Could it be the wrong rotor (too small?) for this distributor?

The rest of the problems are mechanical (back brakes or M/C seized, pedal is very stiff) and can probably be sorted easily...

Edit:
E): Can I a) renovate the ignition switch or b) bypass it without too much hassle? How?

Tips, pointers and kind advice always appreciated!

Cheers from Sweden /Richard

Post by **bigginger** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 10:53 pm

PMs please for instructions on bypassing ignition

My wiring diagram's in the garage and I can't remember the colours, or I'd have sent them myself

a

Post by **Orkney** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:54 am

Hi Richard,
Theres an early one on ebay at the moment 220143148543
it says that

# This auction is for a Morris Minor ignition switch from an early 1000.
# There is only off and on positions. The later cars had a start position that activated the solenoid.

There was a later one for sale last week but cant find it now.
Might be worth trying to replace it first to see if thats the problem - you just need to know which type you need.
Maybe post a wanted ad here on the forum?
If you find one and the seller wont post abroad would gladly send one on for you.

Although might not be the root of your problems its a good starting point.

Fuel pump - points maybe?

Post by **Bluesman** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:15 am

Orkney, thanks for the tip. I am bidding now, hopefully there´s not a bidding war for this item

Looks like the lock is just a 2-terminal thing, so I will just need to rip the wires from it in order to jump the switch. And yes, it´s the correct type. I have a pull-to-start switch (marked S) on the panel. It also looks like the switch is mounted to a simple bracket - but how is this bracket mounted to the body?

As for the fuel pump and the infamous "points": I suppose I will see how it´s assembled once I dismantle it. Have never seen one before, but I guess it´s some sort of a membrane actuated by a pressure-sensing magnet or something. The points ... just like breaker points in the distrubutor? In that case, I´ll work them over with emery cloth and they should be fine.

The distributor issue - just to make sure, I will swap the cables and connectors for new stuff, but I will probably have a hard time to find a rotor and distributor here in Sweden, especially on a Sunday. Working on it anyways. The car should at least start even if the distr is whacky.

This is where I´d *love* to have a workshop manual (on its way from the bookstore). I love pictures of stuff, hate to work "blind" on a car I´ve never seen before..

In any case - Orkney and bigginger - thanks!

Post by **alex_holden** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:29 am

Bluesman wrote:It also looks like the switch is mounted to a simple bracket - but how is this bracket mounted to the body?

A pair of 2BA screws go through the bottom of the dash under the switch into holes tapped in the bracket. Re-fitting it can be rather a fiddly job.

As for the fuel pump and the infamous "points": I suppose I will see how it´s assembled once I dismantle it. Have never seen one before, but I guess it´s some sort of a membrane actuated by a pressure-sensing magnet or something.

There is a spring inside that pushes fuel out of the diaphragm. The carb's demand for fuel regulates how slowly the diaphragm empties. Once the shaft attached to the diaphragm gets past a certain point in its stroke, the mechanism on the end "flips over" and the contacts touch, which energises the electromagnet and pulls the diaphragm open, sucking fuel into the pump. Once the shaft gets past a certain point the mechanism flips over in the other direction, the contacts break apart, and the electromagnet shuts off.

The points ... just like breaker points in the distrubutor? In that case, I´ll work them over with emery cloth and they should be fine.

Only if there are any contacts left - they do burn away eventually and need replacing. If you have to replace the points, see the workshop manual for instructions on setting it up and reassembling it correctly. You need to screw the shaft into the mechanism by the right amount so that it flips over at the right points in the cycle, and the electromagnet needs to be energised so as to pull the diaphragm taut when you screw the body back together.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 2:08 pm

Dizzy bits and pieces are same as Mini - although later Minis do have different dizzy - and the parts won't fit early version. I KNOW there are Minis in Sweden!
But simple test is - run a wire from battery +ve (assuming here the car is converted to -ve earth ??) direct to fuel pump - does it tick nicely ? If so - run another wire direct to coil +ve terminal, and a wire from the other coil terminal to the one on ths ide of the dizzy - now pull the choke knob out and pull the starter knob. If the battery has a charge - it should start!

Post by **Bluesman** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:55 am

Well - fuel pump is working again, will be fitting it later today. It needed a good filing (with a very fine graded file) of the points, which were hoplessly corroded. Also, it refused to tick over until I hit it with 20V

for a second, at that point, it made up its mind to get back to life again. Assembled it as per instructions found (tighten while rocker is actuated), and now it ticks away even at 5V DC. The rocker arm travel is a bit on the long side, but that can be sorted later. First prio now is to have a reasonably well-working fuel system.

The ignition switch is still dodgy, but since I won the one on Ebay, I can fix that later. It looks like the switch still does a proper job, at least while the car is standing still. I bet that road bumps would cut ignition off with the present switch...

And yes - we had the engine running yesterday. Fuel poured into the floater chamber, ignition on...there she started. On 3 cans only, but still. Can #3 probably has a stuck valve. I´ll take that problem to the "mechanical" section

of the forum.

Distributor: I need to find one. The one I have is probably the 1960:s original, and the contacts are very worn-down. A miracle that a spark can still fly over the huge gap between the rotor and the contact...

New spark plug cables are fitted, btw. The old ones had 90 deg angle copper tubing that connected to the spark plugs - original 1960:s?

Anyways, thanks all for tips and comments!
Cheers /Richard

Post by **chickenjohn** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:26 am

Buy a service kit and fit it, that will contain distributor cap, rotor arm, points and condensor. No need to replace the whole distributor, it just needs a service!

Post by **Bluesman** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:29 am

Yes, that´s a typo. The cap is what I need, the distributor itself is fine

Post by **chickenjohn** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:44 am

I'm surprised if its 1960's original unless very low milage, as I change mine every year as part of the service kit (keeping the old parts in case its from a new "bad batch")

Post by **Bluesman** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:14 pm

Well, the pics will speak for themselves. The cap, old and new HT cables. The distributor is (as I found it) in a weird angle, compared to many pics I saw..hopefully it has no impact on plug timing. The engine runs...

CHeers /Richard[/img]

Post by **chickenjohn** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:55 pm

Leads look nice and new! I would replace the cap and rotor arm and check the timing with a timing light while the engine is running. Timing light off lead no 1 and shined on the underside of the crankshaft pulley. Put a dab of white paint on the notch in the pulley. You'll have to lie on the floor looking up to the crank pulley to see this- be very careful of moving parts!