Computer Buying Advice

[millerman]

I use a PC bought secondhand 5 years ago; it runs Widows XP Professional 2002 with SP2, M'soft Office Pro, and has an AMD processor, 896 MHz, 36 MB of RAM and a 40 GB hard drive. (detail copied from "My computer")

I've defragged and run disc clean up but it's a bit slow and, anyway I fancy a laptop!!

So where on the web can I get the best information for a non-technical person on choosing either a laptop or PC and where can I get the best deal with either on-line or phone back up? Secondhand, new, or refurbished? I'm looking for a fairly high spec machine that will still be upgradable in 10 years time.

I've browsed through "Free Software for Dummies" and very much like the the idea of Open Source software. Can this be used easily by the non-technical people like myself?

Cheers all

I look forward to your comments and advice.

[bigginger]

I'll be brief, as I know people get annoyed by my saying it, but for a much better chance of having a computer that will stil be running in ten years, get a Macintosh. 'Nuff said by me, I'll leave you to the PC boys

[badobsession]

my 2p worth is get a mac

[bigginger]

2 votes then...

[Packedup]

My advice would be to see if the board can handle a faster processor. Chances are it's a Via KT133 based one which is quite limited, but if it's a KT133A then it's possible to drop a much faster second hand CPU in

But the most noticeable "speed" improvements are generally to be made from fitting more memory and a faster hard drive. Do that and throw it all in a nice shiny new case, and it'll feel like a new computer for much less money

[chickenjohn]

I would also say get a Mac! But for your current computer- are you sure it only has 36mb of RAM? Thats not very much to run XP and other software you need 256mb as a bare minimum.

I would fill the slots with the biggest memory you can fit and the computer will be a lot faster for it. Another problem is XP- its a memory and processor hog, do yourself a favour and run Linux!

This is the best place to get information on choosing a computer :- www.apple.com ;)

[NZJLY]

Check out http://www.ubuntu.com/
Which should run on your system easily. I don't think anything you get today will be upgradeable in 10 years time, think about the changes over the last 10

John

[millerman]

John,
Re-checked RAM, it's 368MB.

Packedup, I'm considering your option, problem is knowing what I've already got inside the case

Thanks everyone for comments so far.

[d_harris]

In terms of a new system check the dell warehouse out (its all the machines they've had returned and then fixed, selling "as new" with full warrentys etc.)

NZJLY mentioned ubunutu. which I happen to use. Its a fantastic operating system, packed with features and I think its easy to use. I would reccomend that you download Ubunutu 6.10 and try it out on your current system (its really easy to download and install without losing all your windows stuff) and to keep the mac brigade happy you can even run it on macs!

Apple vs PC debate.

Macs are commonly regarded as easier to use but they have less software easily available and if they go wrong you are likely to be landed with quite a large bill. PCs are easier to fix, you can get bits from a multitude of places and you are already familiar with how XP at least operates. Its your choice, but I for one am definatly in the PC camp.

Any Q's about ubuntu let me know.

[chickenjohn]

Time to bust a few Mac myths; less software, yes but everything you are likely to need to do on a computer you can get excellent software for on a Mac- higher quality software too!

PC s can be fixed, (which is just as well as they break down!) but Mac's rarely need to be fixed. No viruses on Apple OS.

XP and all M$ OS's got a lot of their ideas from Apple, so its dead easy to use a Mac even if familliar with PC's.

I agree though on the Linux, if you go PC don't bother with M!cro$0£t go Linux!

[JimK]

Another vote for Macs from me. Check out the current Intel-powered Macbooks. They are very good machines indeed.

Macs are commonly regarded as easier to use but they have less software easily available and if they go wrong you are likely to be landed with quite a large bill. PCs are easier to fix, you can get bits from a multitude of places and you are already familiar with how XP at least operates.

Yes, you may end up with a larger bill for fixing a Mac, but I've never heard of one going wrong. Mine is only ever rebooted when an OS update demands - apart from that it just keeps running and running.

If you want to be using the same machine in 10 years, you have no chance with a PC but every chance with a Mac. The oldest Macs capable of running the current version of the operating system are around their tenth birthday.

Macs have less software available than Winblows machines, this is true. However, I haven't found anything I wanted that didn't exist for Mac. For a list of easy-to-install software, go here: http://opensourcemac.org/

For home computer stuff like managing photos and video, Macs are streets ahead without having to install anything. They all come with a great set of apps for pretty much everything a family computer needs to do.

Top tip: Check out John Lewis if you decide to buy one. Their prices are good and they give a longer warranty than Apple do.

[d_harris]

From my POV my PC (not paticualry quick or fancy, its a 1.8ghz - i Think - duron with 512 Ram) running Ubuntu is fantastic, its has everything I need, for web editing images and all that stuff. I think its great but each to their own!

[JimK]

From my POV my PC (not paticualry quick or fancy, its a 1.8ghz - i Think - duron with 512 Ram) running Ubuntu is fantastic, its has everything I need, for web editing images and all that stuff. I think its great but each to their own!

I have to agree that an older PC running $linux is a great way to cheap, reliable computing. However, Linux does require a certain amount of working out how to do things that not everybody wants to do.

For a great article comparing Linux with Windows, go here:
http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

For those who don't have time to read it all, here's the summary:

If you want an OS that doesn't chauffeur you around, but hands you the keys, puts you in the driver's seat, and expects you to know what to do: Get Linux. You'll have to devote some time to learning how to use it, but once you've done so, you'll have an OS that you can make sit up and dance.

If you really just want Windows without the malware and security issues: Read up on good security practices; install a good firewall, malware-detector, and anti-virus; replace IE with a more secure browser; and keep yourself up-to-date with security updates. There are people out there (myself included) who've used Windows since 3.1 days right through to XP without ever being infected with a virus or malware: you can do it too. Don't get Linux: It will fail miserably at being what you want it to be.

If you really want the security and performance of a Unix-based OS but with a customer-focussed attitude and an world-renowned interface: Buy an Apple Mac. OS X is great. But don't get Linux: It will not do what you want it to do.

[dunketh]

I run Ubuntu and XP on 'older' machines.
Ubuntu is much quicker, easier to use and very 'Mac' like in the way everything is hidden away from the user. You really have to try hard to break it these days.
This means you end up with a machine that just 'works' from the off.
(with modern Linux distros fiddling and command line tinkering is a thing of the past provided you're happy with default settings)

As for Macs, I've never seen the appeal to be honest. Early Macs were overtaken by Amigas and eventually PCs from Day 1 with their confusing filesystem and curious single-tasking 'System' OS.

Laster macs are just proprietary hardware running a window manager ontop of a monged linux kernel. There's nothing 'woohoo special' about them but granted they too work 'from the off' and are very stable, pretty machines.

As for the humble PC? Well its just a box of miss-matched pick and mix parts chucked together over the past 20 years isn't it.
Best bet if you want a PC and you're not a 'techy' type is to just buy direct from Dell. Even their cheapest £299 systems are well overspec'd for anything you're ever likely to throw at them.

Looking back over my words it seems there is no 'great' answer to this old question. I guess a Mac would be best for someone who just wants a box they can flick 'On' and start work without any messing now or in the future.

If this were 10/15 years ago I'd be suggesting you buy yourself an Acorn/Archimedes RISC machine but then thats one nostalgic rant too far...

[Pyoor_Kate]

Dunketh - actually the latest MacOS is UNIX, officially. And yes, ah... my RiscPC;l much loved but also vastly out of date. Y'know some people are still fighting the fight...

I would say if you want to be running the same machine in 10 years time you're very hopeful if you run either a PC or a Mac. While it is possible to be running it it won't be upgradeable in the sense of 'making it faster' or 'giving it more memory'; not in realistic price-sensible terms.

The technology inside these machines changes so fast that a 3 year old machine is unlikely to be able to take the newest processors or memory (macs are, ime, somewhat better for long term upgradability). Basically, there are several approaches to this:

1) Buy a very high spec PC or Mac - that way although it'll get out of date it'll still be reasonably quick in 5 years time, and you'll probably be able to put up with it for longer (tbh, my Laptop falls into this catagory; it was a top of the range Dell (I won't recommend Dell laptops though) 8 years ago, and has had processor / memory / hard disk upgrades (so they're what, 6 years old?) and is *slow*, but adequate for webbrowsing).

2) Buy a cheap as chips PC or a s/h mac and assume you'll ditch it completely in a few years. Rather a disposable point of view, but keeps you closer to the speed that everyone else is running at.

Personally I'm intending to move over to Mac/Linux over the next few years. I've got a hackintosh (an ex-windows PC which now runs MacOS and is, quite honestly, lovely); when my laptop does die it'll probably be replaced by some sort of Mac laptop; and the only PC in the house will probably be converted to Linux next time Windows dies on it, or I get a surge of enthusiasm. The only reason Windows came back into my gloriously Linux and RiscOS world was because my university *required* documents in Microsoft office format, and at that time Open Office wasn't good enough to read them. But it is now

[d_harris]

On this subject, if anyone wants an Ubuntu CD for PC PM me and I'll send one out completly free (It will just be a burned disc, not an official cd - if you want one of those head to ubuntu.com)

I have to agree with Dunketh that ubuntu is a very very good setup, as long as you tell it what you want when you set it up from then on it keeps itself to itself and there is masses of support and things to walk newbies through on the linux forums. I think Jim has over simplified that link though, so give it a good read!

Incidentally, open office is now a very good office suite, I far prefer it to MS office (then again, I like office 97 more than the recent incarnations.....)

[millerman]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

Software: I will probably go for XP Pro and open office or similar.

Next! where's the best place to purchase a computer either laptop or PC?

I've looked at //www.computerplanet.co.uk/systems/amd_ba ... _conf.html
and wonder if it is a good deal and for laptops
/www.laptopshop.co.uk/Acer-Extensa_5212Z ... p-1-n2.htm

Comments/advice very welcome

[chickenjohn]

Its interesting, and encouraging to see, however, quite a lot of folk on here have alternative computing ideas to the norm windoze on a PC box. I would say a much higher than average % here.

Think different, drive a Minor, run a Mac/ Linux!

[millerman]

John

I already run the minor!

[grahamt7]

MAC. beware the very word. It harks back to not running on VHS. Remember betamax.