National Rally 2007 - how it went...

[jon1739]

Thanks Judge, busy time of year for me at the moment but have been browsing the site most days, perhaps thats why I dont get much work done some days as there are that many forums I need to check up on!! Was nice to see a variety of different Minors on display in all conditions. On the Saturday I went and photographed a bright orange Minor van that was parked in the regular car park area, it was a nice example of an everyday Minor that the owner had restored himself, he was very modest and said it wasn't good enough to be parked with the rest of them and try as I might he wouldn't change his mind. This was his first rally and he said he would be back on the Sunday and I told him he had to park it with the rest, I hope he did as I am sure he would have go many favourable remarks. Personally I like to see Minors in all conditions and one of my favorite cars was the battered split screen saloon that used to compete in classic saloon car racing and was even rolled at one meeting and then driven home afterwards! This car had real history and although it looked rough I thought it was just perfect. Each to their own I guess.

[Judge]

I don't know if he did park it with the rest on Sunday (didn't get much of a chance to have a good look around !!!) but I must admit that I didn't park my own lowlight with the other cars on show either. It stayed parked on the edge of the field behind the concours area.

I like to think that a Minor is a Minor is a Minor, and that they all have there own particular charms. In fact my own everyday car is a modified 1000 convertible, and my youngest daughter uses a modified 4 door.

PS What do you use Jon.

[jon1739]

Sadly at the mo I am Minor less, have a Mondeo TDCi car for everyday use, a must as I cover around 45k a year, then its a choice between a modified Mini 1275, a standard Mini 998, a 1961 Lambretta Li125 fitted with a stage4 200cc engine, and soon to be on the road MK1 Escort fitted with works arches, rollcage, six link rear end and a 3.1 Essex V6 and finished in classic Castrol racing colours. Have owned around a dozen Minors in the past and am sure to own some more in the future just need to make some space on the driveway!

[Judge]

Minor less, Minor less??????? I think you have got to sort out your priorities Jon, just dump one of the mini's

[jon1739]

Don't think my wife or daughter would be too happy as they share the driving of the Mini's and sadly neither are very fond on the Minor, no accounting for taste I suppose! But yes I know what you mean, Editor of Minor Monthly and no Morris Minor to drive around in! Still I get to drive in other peoples on a regular basis!

[uax6]

I've been mulling things over for a couple of days, and I think there is a number of reasons why people don't bring their minors to rallys these days.

First is the cost of camping, if we got showers and the the grass cut it would be worth what we paid, but just having toilets most people will not come again....

Secondly people won't bring their 'rough' minors as they feel embrassed to show them. There was only about a handful of rough everyday drivers there this time (mine being one of them!) whereas compared to six or seven years ago 50% were rough. Talking to people that came in modern cars said that their cars wasn't good enough to be brought, which is a load of pish. The club needs to encourage ALL members to bring their cars, as it's getting elitist. More to the fact it's boring seeing row after row of rebuilt cars!

How do we get the message across that every minor built is welcome, be it on the back of a trailer as its rotten as hell, or a concours?

Thirdly we need to convince more traders to come. It's nice to have the auto-jumblers, but there were not the amount of traders that there used to be. I spoke to one that wasn't there on Monday, and they said it was just so much hassell to pack up and take their stock that they won't go again. Shame.

Forthly where have the youngesters gone? There always used to be a band of 17-20 year olds that had just got their minor... maybe they fall into the rough catagory again, too ashamed to bring it?

People seem to like the idea of activities with their cars that I suggested, so can we have some ideas about what we all think would be good to do so that we can see if we can sort a plan? If I'm free and there is a big enough response I will offer to help to sort it out (but I'm not doing it on my own!)

Andy G

[Judge]

Andy, if you read some of my previous postings I think you will find that we share similar views.

[jon1739]

I personally feel that there is nothing going on that will encourage the younger owners with modified cars, they want to race/drag/mess about with their cars, and in the evening listen to a band etc, not watch Morris Dancers and clowns (no offence meant). Sadly on the same weekend as the Nationals there was a big Retro show at Santa Pod where most people with modified older cars would have been. There they have the drag strip to use, a car show plus a large number of traders of all shapes and variety. There will have been a bit of a fun fair, simulator rides, maybe go-karts, then a disco/band in the evening possibly (didn't go so can't be sure) in other words lots going on. Obviously with a small (in comparison) show like the MMOC Nationals you cannot put on these sort of attractions at a large venue but maybe its time to start looking at possibly running the Nationals in conjunction with another show?? Just a thought mind.

[Judge]

Obviously with a small (in comparison) show like the MMOC Nationals you cannot put on these sort of attractions at a large venue but maybe its time to start looking at possibly running the Nationals in conjunction with another show?? Just a thought mind.

My posting dated 2nd May

"I actually posted this under a previous topic but as it did not receive much of a response I thought I would post it again.

With last years Southern Regional Rally in mind (and the 7 page article this achieved in Classic Car Mart), that formed a part of the Uffington White Horse Show, which in turn attracted almost 15,000 visitors, I would like to ask a question. How many of you feel that more of our events should be combined with larger, more general shows?"

[theminorsite]

I've been mulling things over for a couple of days, and I think there is a number of reasons why people don't bring their minors to rallys these days.

First is the cost of camping, if we got showers and the the grass cut it would be worth what we paid, but just having toilets most people will not come again....

Secondly people won't bring their 'rough' minors as they feel embrassed to show them. There was only about a handful of rough everyday drivers there this time (mine being one of them!) whereas compared to six or seven years ago 50% were rough. Talking to people that came in modern cars said that their cars wasn't good enough to be brought, which is a load of pish. The club needs to encourage ALL members to bring their cars, as it's getting elitist. More to the fact it's boring seeing row after row of rebuilt cars!

How do we get the message across that every minor built is welcome, be it on the back of a trailer as its rotten as hell, or a concours?

Thirdly we need to convince more traders to come. It's nice to have the auto-jumblers, but there were not the amount of traders that there used to be. I spoke to one that wasn't there on Monday, and they said it was just so much hassell to pack up and take their stock that they won't go again. Shame.

Forthly where have the youngesters gone? There always used to be a band of 17-20 year olds that had just got their minor... maybe they fall into the rough catagory again, too ashamed to bring it?

People seem to like the idea of activities with their cars that I suggested, so can we have some ideas about what we all think would be good to do so that we can see if we can sort a plan? If I'm free and there is a big enough response I will offer to help to sort it out (but I'm not doing it on my own!)

Andy G

Hi Andy
I'm not sure the bit about 'rough' Minors is that easy to cure, because it embraces a number of smaller sub-issues. I do take the Minor, but never put it in the show parking because I just dont feel its good enough. Which rather left me thinking "why did I bring it?". 'Er indoors brought the caravan behind her 4x4 and half the kids, and my sister bought the rest and her caravan, so I was left in the Moggy on my own both there and back. That doesn't make any sense, especially since the missus moans that she has to drive both ways. Unlike the Minors On Tour, where the car gets 'used' throughout the event, a National doesn't really have any use for the Minor unless you're putting it out on show so I think mine too in future years might be staying at home!

Its been mooted before, and again this year, that owners might be getting a bit 'samey' about the current static format and that perhaps a run might be well received - sort of like 'Le Drive' that we do on MOT each year? Because we as a bunch seem to be becoming more affluent (or at least, less likely to be content with a bit of canvas and a sleeping bag) as we get older, it becomes less likely that the Minor can cope with the role of bringing everything we need for the weekend. The immediate temptation there is to go 'back to basics' and return to the basic little ridge tent and a 12v light from your car battery, but as this years MOT showed you are at the mercy of the weather and if it aint good theres potential for a pretty miserable time.

In regard to the loos et al, I had a long and embarrassing chat with Andrew Booth on the blower a couple of nights back and have to hold my hand up and say I was wrong when I thought it was down to the club saying no to more money. I apologise unreservedly for that, and having had it explained to me I understand now about the siting of the loos and the lack of showers. I wont go into all that here - Andrew did say he'd post if necessary and will of course tell everyone what happened at the AGM in his report. I do still think though that there is a fundamental question to be answered once and for all about profitability - I personally feel that, while desirable, it is not essential for the National rally to make a profit and that the club should subsidise it if necessary to get an optimum event. I know of and accept the opposing view - that members who cant make the National dont want to pay toward it from their subscription - but I feel thats more than countered by saying that we need to portray the best image of ourselves possible in order to attract new members. I'm also aware that its a particularly thorny question and its raised a few temperatures in the past, but its time to accept that its something we need to look at again.

I have more to say, but dont want to write a book in one post(!) so I'll stop for now and continue later

[Judge]

Hi Andy
I'm not sure the bit about 'rough' Minors is that easy to cure, because it embraces a number of smaller sub-issues. I do take the Minor, but never put it in the show parking because I just dont feel its good enough. Which rather left me thinking "why did I bring it?". 'Er indoors brought the caravan behind her 4x4 and half the kids, and my sister bought the rest and her caravan, so I was left in the Moggy on my own both there and back. That doesn't make any sense, especially since the missus moans that she has to drive both ways. Unlike the Minors On Tour, where the car gets 'used' throughout the event, a National doesn't really have any use for the Minor unless you're putting it out on show so I think mine too in future years might be staying at home!

Its been mooted before, and again this year, that owners might be getting a bit 'samey' about the current static format and that perhaps a run might be well received - sort of like 'Le Drive' that we do on MOT each year? Because we as a bunch seem to be becoming more affluent (or at least, less likely to be content with a bit of canvas and a sleeping bag) as we get older, it becomes less likely that the Minor can cope with the role of bringing everything we need for the weekend. The immediate temptation there is to go 'back to basics' and return to the basic little ridge tent and a 12v light from your car battery, but as this years MOT showed you are at the mercy of the weather and if it aint good theres potential for a pretty miserable time.

Firstly let me clarify one point, the MMOC caters for all Morris Minors, and therefore all Morris Minors are welcome at their events. My everyday convertible is far from perfect, but I have no problem with displaying it at the large number of rallies that I attend.

As for rallies becoming a bit 'samey', it is for the members to make their preferences known. In my own branch, we organise drives out, driving test events, visits etc. If this is what is required, it is for the members to make this clear, and be prepared to participate. Remember 'you only get out what you put in'.

[uax6]

I think that we have raised a good many points there.

The two major points I can see is the sameness and the profitablility. The sameness should be able to be overcome quite easily (should we here on the forum try and sort this out as our contribution to the national, by organising things to do with your minor when you are there?) but the profitablilty problem is going to be a nightmare.

I strongly believe that if you have a minor and you want to come to the national (thats the National, THE big event of the year) you should not have to pay to get in (We pay as members towards this every year anyway in our subs). Charge something for the camping yes, but lets have somewhere to wash at least! If it's a free entry we will get more people coming, and to be frank those that don't come and moan about it should be asked why they don't come, and if they object that strongly asked why they are in the club anyway, we don't need hangers on!

Do you remember that for the 50th we all had our subbies raised by two pounds to help cover the cost, and that it would be for one year only? Well I don't ever remember the fee going down..
Why does everything have to make profit? If more people are there we will get more money, as long as the balance is struck.

Are there people here that are prepared to try and sort this out and organise some things to do with your car for next year? I'm up for it.

Andy G

[Judge]

Actually you have answered the profitability question yourself Andy. If you provide exactly what members want, more members attend = problem solved, everyone happy

[uax6]

I appreciate that the mandate says that All minors are catered for, but that's not how it comes across. I know as I've been on the fringe for years! There is a certain amount of distain held towards the modifiers and the rough uns.

I want to see the club get better (thats why i've stuck my head over the parapit here, as I felt throughly let down by the MMOC that they had missed a opportunity again.) not worse. The amount of people who said that this was the last chance, and that it had been blown and that they weren't coming again was shocking. It just cannot continue like this. The national NEEDS to change, and if we can do anything here to help it we should. I'm going to start a new thread to see if we can get some ideas about what we as a forum could do to make it better next year.

Andy G

[lynda]

Are there people here that are prepared to try and sort this out and organise some things to do with your car for next year? I'm up for it.

Andy G

My Dad's comment was also that there wasn't much to keep him entertained after we'd looked at the cars.

I have no idea where I'll be next year but as I won't be writing a dissertation for a change(!) I'd be happy to try and help organise something. As a mechanical novice, I'd be interested in seeing demonstrations of how to work on your car, maybe servicing or something, and then having a go, but I'm not sure how feasible that would be for a large group.

As someone who probably just about counts as a younger member (27) I've never camped, because I'm not keen on the lack of showers and the limited food options - and I'm a bit concerned about how I'd get on with my hay fever! A live band in the evening, while fun, probably wouldn't be enough to change my mind (unless it was Big 10, who are just amazing, see www.big10ska.co.uk). However good facilities and a choice of food that isn't just burgers might just get me to give it a try.

[theminorsite]

To continue(!)...
The traders question is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If the event is well-attended, the traders will want to come - they're not stupid and will not miss an opportunity to deal with a decent number of potential customers, so I dont think its worth putting any effort into trying to get more of them to come. Hows the saying go, "if you build it, they will come"?!

But younger owners, well thats a different question altogether. Its something we've been banging on about in Lincs for years - we get old, we go off to meet the great Moggy in the sky, and nobody replaces us. Thats where it all goes wrong really - you wont get much mileage out of changing formats because the wrinklies among us like it this way. Since we're all satisfied, why would we change anything (I'm talking about the club as a whole now, not just the National). Before we could attempt to recruit younger members, we need to have a sea change about the way we view ourselves - we have to accept that we'll not necessarily endear ourselves to the very people who are here now, as part of the process of change toward something more friendly to younger people.

Those of you who attended the National last year will remember Winston, the Driving Challenge car, which was originally conceived for just that purpose. We wanted a chance to let young people drive a Minor and we spent six months building a car for the job. We had it all ready with a remote kill switch for the engine, blanking plates to only allow it in first gear and reverse, dual controls, the whole monty. But the club insurer wouldn't have it and we ended up using it for adults only. Personally I think thats a crying shame.

Winston also did the Interbranch Challenge, and thats another thing I want to talk about. It took months preparing the car, and more importantly it took up every minute of the National weekend to run, so those of us who volunteered didn't see much of the show ourselves. The flip side is that pretty much everyone we spoke to really enjoyed it and it has to be the first time that the awards bit had to be held back because nobody was ready as they were all watching the finals of the Interbranch!

Obviously I'm biased, but I think we dont make enough of Interbranch. It tends to be the younger members (I say younger, but what I really mean is sub-geriatric) who take part and it gets a nice bit of competitive spirit going. I personally would prefer it played up a bit more - it would have been nice for Ray to give some shpeil about it on the tannoy rather than plugging his book! Its like all things - if we put more into it then more people would want to do it.

As for combining with a larger show, I dont think theres any problem with that at all. For a start we 'piggyback' on their facilities, and hopefully that'd deal with the problems we've had in that area. Not just loos, but food stands etc too. It also means we get members of the public that wouldn't necessarily attend a dedicated Minor event, but do go to large county shows or whatever, and that can get people thinking about a Minor who might not otherwise have done so. It might also bring the cost down (for the club I mean, not for the attenders) because you'd be staggered by how much the current venues cost us. Just how many people went round the house last weekend? Nobody, but nobody, from my branch did. If few of us do actually enjoy that, perhaps its time to steer away from flash country houses that charge thousands of pounds for a field for the weekend, and toward just a decent flat field thats near some nice places to go (the Lake District springs to mind among others).

Anyway, thats enough for now...

[Judge]

Thanks for your input Mike.

[theminorsite]

Thanks for your input Mike.

Sorry, I went on a bit there
Actually, I've got loads more, but I think I'll save it for another chat with Andrew

[uax6]

Mike again you rasied good points...

Shurely the car would've been covered under the general public liability insurance had it been declared?

Anyway your are right under so many headings.. The country house means nothing to me, and I don't think any of the LCVers visited (we were too pre-occupied with the brilliant marina rally car!).

I think that there is also a bit of taking things too seriously. I knew nothing about the interbranch rally (where was that held then?) and I think that the van club were yet again ostrized to one corner as we 'don't fit in' (Ie we don't take things seriously enough!).

Country fairs might be the answer (not sure there) but certainly we should be with other cars clubs (I don't think the marina club would team up with us, as they would be worried that their engines would go missing!) and challenges etc should be done (certainly if it was a success!)

Andy G

[HarryMango]

I think that there is also a bit of taking things too seriously. I knew nothing about the interbranch rally (where was that held then?) and I think that the van club were yet again ostrized to one corner as we 'don't fit in' (Ie we don't take things seriously enough!).
Andy G

Andy - the interbranch challenge was held in the "Arena" - I'm amazed that you managed to avoid Rosie H rounding up teams to take part . If you had managed to find it you would realise how "serious" we were

Rog