Patsy won't start

[alex_holden]

You'll need a spark plug spanner or socket. Pull the HT leads off, keeping track of which lead was connected to which plug, and simply unscrew them with the spanner/socket. Putting them back is the reverse procedure, but be careful not to overtighten them as you don't want to strip the threads.

The gaps probably won't need adjusting but it wouldn't do any harm to check them.

[Welung666]

philb, where abouts are you? Perhaps someone local could pop round and have a quick look for you! I'm sure a cuppa and a few chocolate hobnobs would go a long way ;)

[philb]

I live near Tonbridge in Kent

[bmcecosse]

If it's stiff to turn on the handle - it's not right! Especially with plugs out - you should be able to turn it over easily and continuously. Just because it has enough power to keep turning when it's running - doesn't mean it's not partially seized. You must check if it's free turning - plugs out and have a go! Where did the 'refurb' engine come from ?

[philb]

Engine is from Bull Motif. Previous owner bought it. I have receipt and I believe warranty covers 18 months and/or 6000 miles.

I have hot wired starter motor with plug out. Starter motor just not turning. I reckon I've been unlucky & bought one thats dud.

[Willie]

I don't understand the "when I earthed the engine the starter whirred and then stopped" bit. If it whirred and then went clonk it could be jamming in the flywheel teeth but you didn't mention a clonk! If the problem is with the starter motor/ the solonoid/ or battery power then starting on the handle or bump starting by passes all of those items as there is much less drain on the battery using the handle. I assume that you checked on the new starter motor that the starter gear was free to run up and down the spindle? If you unbolt the starter and withdraw it slightly you can then operate the solonoid and see if it runs ok. Have just seen your last post and suggest you remove the starter and see if it runs out of the engine, and, at the same time test the original one!!

[philb]

I tried both new & old SM's out of the engine before I replaced the old one. Both span, but I wouldn't have thought that this would necessarily mean that they will work when fitted.

[Packedup]

If the engine doesn't turn on the starter with the plugs out, does it turn on the handle? If not, does it turn on the handle with the plugs out and the starter off?

Does it turn on the handle with the plugs out, starter off, and clutch down?

If the answer to all of these is no, then is it, in fact, duff?

Bump starting means you're using the moving mass of the car to spin the engine. That energy can overcome an element of seizure that maybe the starter can't and you simply cannot put through the starting handle. But I'd be discounting a poor electrical system, broken gearbox and possible hydraulic lock (if coolant gets into a cylinder it can cause way more pressure than the starter can handle, though if there's not too much coolant the engine can still turn *just* with enough force and then run once the coolant has been ejected out the back) before considering the engine to be toast

[philb]

Ahhhgghhh! The list of possibles is getting longer & longer. I wish I had taken mechanics 101 at some point in my life!

[kennatt]

get it started again and switch off the ignition and watch what happens to the engine ,does it stop turning instantly or does it run on for a second or two. Difficult to explain so try it on another car so you know what should happen on a good engine. The engine should run on with the ignition off before stopping. If it stops instantly,then you have a problem with the internal workings could be anything from bent crankshaft to badly fitted or wrongly sized bearings,tight pistons the list goes on. Try the above test and if the engine stops suddenly TAKE IT BACK under the warrantee.If it is tight and you continue to drive it,it will eventually wreck the engine and you may loose out on getting it replaced or sorted out under the warrantee good luck with it

[Orkney]

If you take the plugs out best to do them one at a time and replace each HT lead once refitted - that way enthusiasm wont get the better of you and end up with 4 leads off and no idea which ones go back where.

[Welung666]

Or cheat like I do mark the front lead with 1 stripe of tippex, the 2nd with 2 and so on!

[8009STEVE]

Beat me to it.

[Orkney]

Good idea with the tippex - also worth once thats done making a sketch of where they are on the distributor cap.
Now if only i'd known that one the time i replaced a set of leads on a v8 without thinking first

[Welung666]

I have the same tippex marks on my dizzy cap too ;)

[philb]

Firstly I want to thank all of you for your support, help,hints, & ideas you've been fantastic.

Patsy is back on the road!!! I gave in and took her to ESM Morris garage in Stonegate. The mechanic managed to start her using the starting handle! He either has arms like Schwarznegger or after 35 years experience he has developed the knack. He is still not sure why she stopped starting in the first place but I am due an update on that later today.
Mechanic reckons that my engine is well built, timing may be slightly out which may have caused the initial problem, also needs oil change as it hasn't had one to my knowledge.

Anyway, he took out the new SM & put the old one back in. Patsy started first time with ignition key.
He thinks that it may be because the new SM was slightly bigger & had the housing fitted around the wrong way at the factory, this meant that the clip holding the casing together interfered with the angle of the SM when it was inserted it into Patsy which meant it didn't engage.

Comedy of errors on my part...because I changed the SM first and she didn't work, I then changed the solenoid & she still didn't work. Problem may have originally been the solenoid but because I changed the SM first & presumed the SM was OK I was off on a tangent.

I will post an update later when I have spoken to the mechanic again.

[philb]

Garage reckon that because engine timing 30 advanced it somehow seized the SM or dodgy solenoid...no wonder the wife's been zooming everywhere!

Anyway Patsy is now back up & running (alot smoother) with 7 advanced.

Thanks to all of you.

[bmcecosse]

If the ignition is too advanced it will 'kick' badly against the starter motor - very obvious when it happens !! But you are now using the 'old ' SM - so it must be ok !!

[philb]

Yes old SM with timing adjusted. The new SM I fitted had a casing strap with a bolt that had been put on the wrong side of the SM casing. This meant that it made the SM misallign when fitted & caused the SM to 'over mesh' (I have no real idea what that means but I nodded knowingly when he told me!). Anyway as a result the new SM wouldn't function correctly.

Trouble was because we replaced SM first & then the solenoid we presumed the new SM was OK!

We had tested the old solenoid with a large screwdriver & it appeared to be fine. I changed the cable from solenoid to SM as well.

[philb]

They gave me a full refund on the new SM no questions asked.