Patsy won't start

Post by **philb** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 10:48 am

Hello everyone

I am new to the forum & a complete mechanical novice...(so probably mad to buy an old car).

Brief History:

My wife & I recently bought our first morris minor. Her name is Patsy and she's a 1964 MM 1000 4 DR saloon. She had been running beautifully and starting first time every time until a few days ago. Her engine is a refurbed 1098cc with 800 miles on the clock.

Problem:

Starter motor tries but not turning engine.

I have checked battery, rocked car & hit SM with hammer, checked solenoid.

Replaced solenoid.... no joy
I fitted a new starter motor....no joy

Replaced battery....no joy

Managed to bump start her and engine running fine.

Replaced cable between solenoid & starter motor because volt meter reading 12V in 8V out of solenoid and I thought it may be a dodgy cable.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I know I have probably written this post in a garbled way so if you need any information or questions answered, please just ask.

Thanks in advance

Post by **8009STEVE** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 10:59 am

Sounds like the engine isn't earthed to the body. Put a jump lead between engine and earth on battery. and see what happens.

Post by **philb** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:07 am

I'm embarresed to ask this but please clarify:
At present the cable from '+' on battery goes to solenoid, cable from '-' on battery connected to battery tray frame.

So do I connect jump lead between '-' on battery to the engine?

Post by **Welung666** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:11 am

Yes, clip the one end over a bolt holding the engine/gearbox together and the other end either on where the '-' attaches to the battery tray or the '-' terminal on the battery

Post by **philb** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 12:22 pm

No joy. I tried the jump lead earthing as suggested, SM whirred for a second and stopped.

Post by **alex_holden** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 12:27 pm

Put the voltmeter directly across the battery terminals and operate the starter. Does the voltage drop, and if so what to?

Post by **philb** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 1:34 pm

Voltmeter went from 12.5 - 9 when I operated the starter.

One thing I have noticed is that I tried to turn the engine over manually with the crank handle & it's very tight.

Post by **Packedup** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:25 pm

Random suggestion - Try removing the spark plugs, then turn it on the starter.

See what (if anything) happens.

Post by **Willie** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:26 pm

With an engine which has only done 800 miles it should be fairly tight to turn on the handle but, provided you keep your thumb and finger ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE STARTING HANDLE, you should be able to start it with no problems. If you are satisfied that the earthing strap between the chassis and the gearbox cross member is in good contact then you may not be charging the battery properly. The fact that it starts ok if bump started suggests this.

Post by **philb** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:32 pm

Hi Willie

Thanks for tip about handle. When I earthed the engine with jump lead would this have countered the potential earth problem you mention? Also I put a new battery in the car yesterday.

Post by **Packedup** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:50 pm

Even a fairly weak battery and starter should spin a 1098 with no compression (ie plugs out). As the battery appears to be OK (voltage dropping to 9 is the reason manufacturers went to ballast systems, so isn't an extreme figure IMO) and the starter has been replaced, if it can't turn a compressionless engine I'd be wondering if the ring gear teeth are messed up, or something bottom end is seizing. With no plugs in it should be quite easy to turn on the handle as well, and with no chance of kickback.

I'm wondering if spinning it with the plugs out will see a lovely 45 degree fountain...

If it can't be turned with the starter or handle with the plugs out, and it's definitely in neutral, try turning it with the clutch down. If it still doesn't, start worrying!

Post by **philb** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:58 pm

What is a 45 degree fountain???

Post by **philb** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:02 pm

Do I need to remove the plugs if the engine runs ok when I bump started it?

Post by **alex_holden** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:05 pm

Silly question, but did you charge the new battery before you fitted it?

Post by **philb** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:10 pm

no I didn't but would have thought it was okay. I have been slow charging the old battery overnight and will give it a go. The charge should be enough. I've had batteries in and out & tried jump starting

Post by **alex_holden** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:13 pm

philb wrote:What is a 45 degree fountain???

He means there might be fluid in the cylinders preventing them from turning and spinning it with no plugs in would squirt it out.

Post by **philb** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:59 pm

Is it easy to remove the plugs?

Post by **bigginger** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 4:01 pm

Very

Post by **philb** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 4:11 pm

thanks bigginger! heehee. Can you tell me how to do it...pretty pleeeease.

Post by **philb** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 4:14 pm

will I need to respace them once removed & replaced? I know they are new plugs so shouldn't see any wear or damage.