Disc brakes and telescopic fronts

Post by **Welung666** » Mon May 28, 2007 8:52 pm

Preston on page 3 wrote:I fitted one side last weekend and it all went together very nicely. I sat back to admire the view and noticed the outside edge of the caliper protruded from the face of the disc hub by about half an inch. Yes, you've guessed it, the standard wheel doesn't clear the caliper. I then recalled Pat's picture of his car which appears to sport alloy wheels.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Mon May 28, 2007 9:30 pm

I'm amazed - the standard 14" wheel has lots of clearance built in - the calipers can't be THAT large surely!

Post by **jonathon** » Mon May 28, 2007 9:33 pm

T'is true Bm even the Ford based kits require a 5mm spacer between disc and wheel. Just a simlpe case of offsets and available space.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Mon May 28, 2007 9:44 pm

Yet I can get Fiesta MK I caliper under my 10" Mini wheels ?? We need to find more compact calipers - the Fiesta one is excellent! Single piston and very reliable. I'm sure it can be made to fit.

Post by **jonathon** » Mon May 28, 2007 9:59 pm

Its the relationship of the swivel pin, caliper mounting face and stub axle/hub length which does not allow an easy siting. Presume the mini wheel has a more favorable construction.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Mon May 28, 2007 10:49 pm

Indeed - it's front wheel drive for starters - but the Fiesta caliper has a good big pad in there - and acts on 7.9" disc.

Post by **wanderinstar** » Mon May 28, 2007 10:52 pm

I think there is some confusion here. I was talking about fitting Polo Discs AND Calipers as on http://www.morrisminoroc.co.uk/index.ph ... polo+discs

While Lee is talking about fitting Polo Discs with Fiesta Calipers as on http://www.morrisminoroc.co.uk/index.ph ... brakes+100

I have PM'd Ialaw who did this conversion to see if he had any problems with fitting 14" wheels.

Post by **dunketh** » Tue May 29, 2007 9:44 am

If only there were a dedicated faq post saying "this is what discs we use, this is what calis we use and this is how you fit them" without all this uncertainty and dallying. Bang and the job is done!

There must be someone out there with the time, the spare 'minors' and the engineering know-how? Perhaps we could all sponsor him/her a quid each to be the official 'tester of suggested bodges' or something similar.

As for tele dampers I'm not sure Id want to mount anything that takes that much force to the inner wings - they dont look all that tough. At least the lever arm type disperse the force of the impact into that hefty box section.

Post by **ricombi** » Tue May 29, 2007 12:05 pm

The SPAX kit I've got includes a nice thick backing plate that you bolt through on the front inner wing. Add to this the thickness of the upper mount for the damper, and having to only drill 4 holes into the wing itself, it should be perfectly strong. In addition to this the mounts are very close to the crossmember which runs along the bulkhead, and the plate around the large hole in the inner wing, so this gives the whole installation something else to give a bit more added strength.
The damper of course only acts in an up and down motion, provided they are mounted correctly, the backing there should be no excess twisting or attempted sideways motion of the inner wing or mounts. I have seen a lot less well engineered and strong looking damper mounts on many a car and they all seem to work.

I think getting people to detail different caliper and disc applications is a great idea. One way of doing it would surely be to get owner's together who have carried out various changes with a day or so and the appropriate tools and make a full magazine article about fitting the new brakes to the car and what, if any, major modifications need to be made, and a side note to fitting a servo etc. This could be extended to a multitude of "bolt-on" modifications, such as the telescopic dampers being discussed here already. Maybe Minor Matters or Minor Monthly special editions...?

Post by **bmcecosse** » Tue May 29, 2007 1:58 pm

My tele dampers bolt through the front inner wings and absolutely no problems to report 4 years later. It's important to make sure the damper does just that - it's not also acting as the top or bottom bump stop when massive forces can be created! It just damps.

Post by **ricombi** » Tue May 29, 2007 3:05 pm

It sounds good for the telescopic dampers then!

I'll take some photos of the installation on my car, as its probably easier for me than most considering my car is pretty much a bare shell as it stands.

Also, when I have all the bits, I'll take photos of the brake installation and post them with some form of fitting "guide" when I get 5 minutes.

Post by **youngun** » Tue May 29, 2007 5:46 pm

Ricombi, i would be very interested to see pictures of the front tele's being fitted.

I have been looking round on the net, ESM offer a number of tele kits for the front, oil, gas or Spax. Is there any reason to go for the named brand in this case? And do these simply bolt on? http://morrisminorspares.co.uk/shop/pro ... ef694d0e41

Post by **ricombi** » Wed May 30, 2007 9:08 am

Is that picture link of the front or rear kit? Either way, the spax kit I have looks nothing like that one at either end!

I ordered mine through Demon Tweeks, you'll have to call them but they should be able to get it and it arrived with them very quickly.

I will get some images of my car when I have finished work tonight and post them up.

As for buying the named brand, I don't suppose it matters, that just narrows it down to the choice between oil or gas telescopics. In my experience, gas is better than oil, but that's just my opinion.

Post by **plastic_orange** » Wed May 30, 2007 11:00 am

It all depends what you want out of the car, and the type of roads and driving style you use. I used a spax kit for 20 years (front shocks lasted well, but rears didn't like the angle they worked at) and it was reasonably well engineered. Avoid the rear kit where it bolts to boot floor, and the kit you have highlighted uses I think Mini shocks, but puts a bit of extra loading on the original shock mount - there are better kits out there.
Controversially, as an alternative I also suggest emptying original dampers of oil, and refilling with something a bit thicker - really does improve things (as good as standard teles in my opinion). I also suggest keeping original dampers (front) in full working order (not taking out valve) in conjunction with any tele kit (It's maybe a Scottish thing

)

Pete

Post by **bmcecosse** » Wed May 30, 2007 11:12 am

Absolutely - keep the original dampers working - with thicker oil in them - 20/50 is a good compromise although straight 40 is even better and EP90 is possible too - but probably too extreme for a road car.

Post by **youngun** » Wed May 30, 2007 8:26 pm

[quote="plastic_orange"]It all depends what you want out of the car, and the type of roads and driving style you use.

Well I live in the depths of Nort Devon and the roads around here are windy and bumpy, even the A roads. So im, looking for good damping (no bone shaking) and will sweeps through bends with little roll. Of course good brakes around my way are essential too.
How does the Vented disk kit, which is very pricey, compare to e.g. a Standard kit, if there is such a thing.

Post by **ricombi** » Wed May 30, 2007 9:08 pm

Here are some shots of my SPAX installation front and rear. You can see how the front mounts bolt through the inner wings with the backing plates, and also how I've had to modify the backing plates to mount them in the correct places, although this is mostly hidden by the now in place lever arm. The lower front mount wraps around the wishbone arms at the front, and bolts through the rear hole of the 2 wishbones. I've "disabled" the front lever arm on my car, as it will help me when I am setting the shocks so I have a better idea of the ideal setting without the lever arm affecting this, and also as SPAX recommend it in the fitting instructions, and at this time, I shan't argue with them!

The rear is quite self explanatory, plate under leaf spring, mount on link arm mounting. This obviously gives it quite an extreme angle, so I'll just have to see how this goes.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Wed May 30, 2007 9:14 pm

Good pictures! Better to keep the levers working - why not - share the load around. Rear dampers at an angle like that are obviously losing a great deal of their efficiency. I see you have lowered the rear - hope that damper has enough free travel before the suspension comes up solid against the cut-down bump stop!

Post by **ricombi** » Wed May 30, 2007 9:23 pm

Hopefully, thats what the cut down bumpstop is for. If it doesn't work, it'll have to come off. I'll just have to see how the angle at the back goes. if its shocking, maybe I can come up with a bracket to bring the top mount further forward.

Once the car is going, I'll try and let people know how it handles. I used to have a road Minor, so I can compare to a certain extent.

As long as the dampers do not seize on the front I am happy for them not to work, as I said, it provides a little more accuracy when changing damper settings.

Post by **jonathon** » Wed May 30, 2007 9:39 pm

Bringing the mount further forward will reduce the active stroke of the damper, which if its the mini based one will already be marginal. I think you will experience a degree of improvement over the original set up , but as BM states the angle of the damper will dictate that its only about 60% effective.