undercoats

[FrankM83]

Hi all, need to apply some sort of undercoat on my van, should I start with etch primer? or can I start with that grey stuff ( sandable prime or stock filler, don't know what exactly is it called sorry)

[jonathon]

Start with etch, as very few primers have etching properties especially cellulose based ones.

[FrankM83]

Thanks, I am asking cause I recently tried a product called sandable primer from Plasti-Kote it says it adheres to bare metal, has anyone tried it? I tried it on my daily driver just to cover up a dent which i repaired but would love some ideas from experts as I never sprayed before

[dunketh]

I no nothing about paint but I also don't trust anything that claims to make my life easier.
I think you're better off using traditional methods which would entail etch primer, more primer, paint then waxoyl. imho.

[jonathon]

To be honest you are better to select products from the same manufacturer, then you can be assured that they are at least compatible.
The exception to this rule however is the excellent Davids Reface primer, which does not require an etc coat beneath. It provides an excellent surface which can be dry sanded followed by your primer, and top coat.

[les]

I've never used etching, sounds like maybe I should. This would be on paintwork that has been rubbed down to bare metal in places? Can it be applied in patches on the bare metal rather than all over if the original paint is sound?

[jonathon]

Yes it can Les, but if spraying onto the original cellulose paint only apply the paint as mist coats as it will most probably react with the layers of celly. Generally you only need apply one or two coats of etch, sprayed very lightly,do not flat this but apply your primer directly once you are sure that the etch is fully cured, otherwise you may encounter shrinkage or other paint reactions.

[les]

Thanks for that Jonathan. Do you think it is worth etching if you only break through to bare metal here and there, as the celly on my van has been rubbed down to original paint to ensure a good surface, the bare metal would also include some small areas of new metal welded in.

[jonathon]

I'd only etch onto bare surfaces,ie steel, aluminum, and glass fibre. Etch is a 50/50 mix and has a nasty habit of finding feathered edges in previous paintwork, resulting in either small blisters of crinkle looking finish, hence the need for only a fine misting. If you only have small areas of break through then don't bother with etch, just purchase a primer with self etching properties, or go for the Davids Reface.

[les]

More thanx!

[moggyminor16]

well what i have done and still doing is bare metal respray before any colour gos on or primer i always use red oxide then spray filler then sand that back with 1000 wet and dry then the colour paint about 6 coats the last one use 1000 wet and dry and lightly flatern back tehn 3 layers of clear laquir then job done

[les]

I've been having trouble getting the right colour in cellulose, as this proposed ban is taking effect. Having at last found a suppy I'm buying a good few litres, firstly for the main respray and then enough for future repair or touch-up. The price is high and with primer, thinners and what have you, there's not going to be much change out of £300. What paint will be available in the future is difficult to pin anyone down on. All the articles written about this, and it doesn't seem like there have been many, seem to attach little concern to this issue.

[moggyminor16]

there going to be alot of paint about but water based so a lot harder for us all to do at home so stock up if you can im doing it as well im finding hard to get thinners anit bloom at a good price last year was able to get it at 10 pound for 5 leters but cheapest i have found now is 25 to 40 a tin so im stocking up on loads of it at teh momet i have 10 leters of black and 7 leters of white soon i hope get 10 more leters of black and 10 leters of white ,but i do not know what is going to happern with teh hammer right as you can get smooth right and the hammer right thinners i have done one car in smooth right and looks good only difrece is there is not a deep shine ,or you can use coach paint just dont know what will be about soon may be next year you will not be able to get any celly paint at all

[jonathon]

I believe that celly paint will become more expensive, as the main demand will only be from dedicated professional bodyshops, and clubs with/individuals with vested interests. beware on stocking up on paint as it only has a limited shelf life.
Paint stores will be stocking fewer celly paint mixing schemes as time goes on and the demand finally waines.
M16, why 6 colour coats, is it due to the fact you flat back quite heavily, and are you using basecoat or solid colour on which you apply the clear coats.

[les]

20 litres will cost you at least £350 plus v. You can get anti-bloom for about £8 for 5 litres

[moggyminor16]

well jonathon if want a good finish then i use the amount i was told that to get a good finish should be 7 coats and then flattern back but there not thick coats i do only thin ones

[moggyminor16]

les were about can you get anti bloom thinners for that price ill be your best mate if you tell me
chris

[les]

as the main demand will only be from dedicated professional bodyshops, and clubs with/individuals with vested interests.

The main point is the lack of info on who to approach or where to go to get your requirements when this situation arises, all I want to know is the sequence of actions I will need to go through, ie; I walk down to joe boggs paint outlet show him all my documents membership number and tell him what I had for breakfast, he then takes my order and money, then phones me when the cellulose arrives, I go and pick it up. You would think the regular mags would have sorted all this out for their readers by now.

[les]

I've sent you mail

[moggyminor16]

ta sent u one back