Electric car - someone we know?

[JimK]

Packedup, you're pretty much spot on. I'll take issue with the "unproven and shaky science" bit - the science is good and solid, but it true the theory is unproven.

The rest I agree with. Raising taxation is always popular with goverments, and if they can get the people to agree to it then they're very happy. I agree that the "green" agenda is being used for political ends, but what I very much dislike is when people write off the science behind the theory because they don't like what is being done as a result.

I don't think higher taxes on cars will make the slightest difference - petrol has increased in cost massively without overall milage dropping at all. Making things expensive only penalises those who are poor but still need to drive. People only seem to give things up when it becomes socially unacceptable; drunk driving, for example. How you make wasting petrol or electricity socially unacceptable I have no idea.

I take direct action: I have low energy bulbs which I switch off when I can. I don't use the car for short (under 2-3 miles journies). I buy renewably generated electricity. I reuse plastics wherever possible and try not to buy things in plastic packaging. And so on. None of those require higher taxes, but they can all help reduce my impact on the planet.

bigginger, I'm sorry - I did sound rather like "I've got an environmental conscience and no-one else has". It just saddens me how many people wander around without ever thinking about anything outside their own little world. Terry Pratchett has it right: "the planet is where their body walks around, sleeps and has its tea but most people live in a little world of their own creation inside their heads." I wish people would open their eyes and brains more. I do, and it's a continual source of delight.

I must make it clear that this isn't aimed at anybody in particular. While I don't agree with Axolotl's stance on the subject of global warming, he has at least thought seriously about it. He's in the minority, I fear.

[Stig]

But what does paying extortionate levels of tax under the excuse of a green agenda help?

If they don't get it from petrol etc. they'd get it another way. That's what a budget means, income and expenditure have to balance and if our government wants to spend money on war, peerages or whatever they'll tax us regardless.

[JimK]

That's what a budget means, income and expenditure have to balance and if our government wants to spend money on war, peerages or whatever they'll tax us regardless.

Nooooo, they get money from peerages. Alledgedly.

[Stig]

I know it's the Off-Topic section but bringing it back to the original subject, anyone know how Nikki's getting on with her electric commute? Has it got a heater, for example?

[alex_holden]

I think she said somewhere it has an electric heater (though obviously range is reduced when you use it).

[Axolotl]

the science is good and solid, but it true the theory is unproven

A contradiction in terms, surely? If the theory is unproven, then the science isn't solid at all. It is just a theory. The scientific approach hasn't been followed through at all.

Science works by postulating a concept, then conducting experiment(s) and observations to prove or disprove the theory. It is only when the outcome of the experiment is known that the concept becomes a proven truth.

No experiment has so far (can it ever?) prove the CO2 = global warming theory.

In fact, the observations we have tend to show that CO2 does not cause global warming. (CO2 rise follows warming, doesn't precede it, e.g. in the 20th century, massive increase in CO2 up to 1940 were followed by global cooling from 1940 to 1970, but the CO2 rise followed warming in the latter half of the 19th century).

[Roni]

This, http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/08 ... d_mini.php , is an interesting take on the whole electric idea. Could be a lot of fun, more so if the system was built into a Minor!

[chrisd87]

No experiment has so far (can it ever?) prove the CO2 = global warming theory.

I thought scientific theories can only ever be disproved, not proven, but if the theory cannot be falisfied then it is regarded as correct. At least, that's what I remember from AS Physics!

Although I'm not entirely convinced by that programme's fundamental message I think it did have some good points about the nature of some portions of the environmental movement and the negative consequences some of its actions are having on developing countries.

As for the £400 car tax issue, I don't think this has been properly thought through for the long-term impact. Somebody mentioned on another forum that what happens when these cars get to 8 years old or so and are only worth £2k? They're simply going to get scrapped as nobody is going to want to pay £400 each year to tax an old banger. That's hardly sustainable or a good use of energy!

Of course enterprising manufacturers and owners might be able to get around this by fitting a very low-tune and therefore low CO2 emission 'chip' to the car for type approval and production purposes but offering an upgrade for free or at very low cost, which would restore the power but increase the CO2. Since (AFAIK) the CO2 tax level on a car is not changed when it is modified you'd pay the same as before but have a much more powerful car! Either that or in the case of expensive cars you could supply them with a low-powered and low emission diesel engine, but include in the purchase price the cost of ripping it out and slotting a nice V8 petrol in 'for free'.

I can also see a lot of pre-March 2006 'ringers' appearing.

[Pyoor_Kate]

Re Nikki's plans.

Since she seems to have engaged herself fully in the electric car movement I'll give you an update:

She's got an electric car called a CityEl (aka MiniEl) which she uses for travelling around brizzy. I understand it's got a top speed of around 40mph, and does around 30 miles to a charge, iirc (though I might well be wrong on that). She's been pretty happy with it bar a few incidents (it was used as a prop by a company for ages, so despite being 10 years old had very low mileage, she's had some contacts fail because the electrics were grubby and that kind of thing).

She's been so happy that she convinced a friend of ours to buy one too, so he's now trundling round brizzy in a MiniEl (his is the older MiniEl, pre them getting spanked by BMW).

She's also still got the electric scooter (entertaining, but not my cup of tea), which I think she tends to use more over the summer. My mum's still waiting on an electric car, I went to go look at an Enfield, but it needed a *lot* of work - and I just don't have the time.

Uh, anyhow, that shot of Nikki's CityEl is taken in the Cribbs Causeway Charging Point (possibly overcapitalised) that she orchestrated. She's trying to get charging points all over Bristol, I think.

And as for Hebe, she's off to Wales, to Nikki's friends farm. He builds EV's and is apparently going to give her some help and advice getting the car sound (over the next few years) and electrified.

So, uh, that's my Nikki-update for the week.

[bmcecosse]

The only way the 'electric car' will be green - is if you charge the battery from a windmill at your own home. Even then - that windmill consumed huge amounts of energy in it's construction/transport to the home/erection on site - and will be years before it pays that back - maybe never if it breaks. There are a few small windmills around here - very few are still working after about a year - they stand idle with the blades buckled and bent! Money and energy down the drain.

[rayofleamington]

There's a windmill down the road from here - about 300 years old I think... ;-)

[Packedup]

I never quite cope with the people who protest against wind farms (usually by placing big gaudy signs outside their large, widescreen TV filled houses) often being the same as will spend an afternoon gazing at the beauty of windmills