Rewiring Hell

Post by **jackkelleher** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:18 pm

I've just replaced the main wiring loom for my 1958 Moggy, having recieved it from England (just moved to the US) with all the wires melted. I think everything's fine in the wiring, but I have a few problems... First, the wiring diagram includes an eight-way relay for my model year. My car is notably bereft of any such relay... But the lights still work. Problem is, it's definitely not a later car because the other features of the diagram correspond exactly (I'm using an old Haynes). So I don't know how to check if that section works...
Which leads to my second problem. Little help needed; anybody know what would cause the car to turn over very nicely, but not start at all? Is there a chance it's the condenser? The battery won't hold a charge, but I've bypassed that problem 'til I get a new one by attaching the car to a charger whenever I try to start it.
Also, how do you get into the side panels to access the courtesy light wiring? Mine's shot, but I can't access it.
Well people, that's the sum of my problems... Oh, no it's not.
The wiper unit moves very slowly, and the wipers won't seat properly. They just stop when you press the switch back in. They don't go back down. I know that's usually a problem with the earthing, isn't it? I've checked all the wiring and that's as it should be according to the diagram...
Help!!![/url]

Post by **jackkelleher** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:43 pm

Update to the situation: I have an early starter and three-contact light switch, but only one horn (lke later models) and no eight-way relay. No idea what's going on. Was '58 a special year?

Post by **alex_holden** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:46 pm

jackkelleher wrote:First, the wiring diagram includes an eight-way relay for my model year. My car is notably bereft of any such relay... But the lights still work.

If you have amber flashing indicators and they work, you don't need the relay box.

jackkellehr wrote:Which leads to my second problem. Little help needed; anybody know what would cause the car to turn over very nicely, but not start at all?

Lots of possibilities. Start by checking there is fuel in the carb float chamber and you're getting a spark at the plugs.

jackkellehr wrote:The battery won't hold a charge, but I've bypassed that problem 'til I get a new one by attaching the car to a charger whenever I try to start it.

That's not really a good idea; chargers aren't designed to supply the very high current used by the starter motor.

Also, how do you get into the side panels to access the courtesy light wiring? Mine's shot, but I can't access it.

You can get to the wires by taking the glove box liners out. Use a large cross-head screwdriver to unscrew the switches from the A posts.

Post by **alex_holden** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:48 pm

jackkelleher wrote:Update to the situation: I have an early starter and three-contact light switch, but only one horn (lke later models) and no eight-way relay. No idea what's going on. Was '58 a special year?

I believe 1958 is too early to have had indicators; it will originally have had trafficators instead. If it has indicators now they'll have been a later addition.

Post by **jackkelleher** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:50 pm

Thanks... I've checked the float chamber (fine level) and what would be the best way to test for a spark at the plugs?
On that last point, how does one manoeuvre a cross-head around the spring shaft at the centre?
Thanks.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:52 pm

The 8 way relay was was to allow the brake lights to 'flash' - as per USA practice - to give direction indication. Not starting - well - is the fuel pump ticking ? Fuel getting to the carb ok ? Is there a spark at the plugs ? And if so - are the HT leads connected in the correct order which is 3421 anti-clockwise round the dizzy cap - obviously #1 must fire when that piston is at TDC with both valves tight shut. If no spark then first check the wiring to see if power is getting to the +ve connection on the coil, then is there a wire from the -ve connection to the dizzy? Then check points gap (15 thou) - and yes it could be the condenser - or a short circuit inside the dizzy with a bare wire or the points not fitted correctly. Let's get it started first before worrying about the wipers!

Post by **Welung666** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:52 pm

Push the pin in with the tip of the screwdriver and unscrew it ;)

Post by **alex_holden** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:53 pm

jackkelleher wrote:Thanks... I've checked the float chamber (fine level) and what would be the best way to test for a spark at the plugs?

I'd take one out and lay it on the block. Be careful not to touch it when you turn the engine over or you can get a painful shock.

jackkelleher wrote: On that last point, how does one manoeuvre a cross-head around the spring shaft at the centre?

Just push the pin right in with the screwdriver.

Post by **jackkelleher** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:55 pm

Trafficators? Ok. No sign of them now, but I suppose they could quite easily have been removed and filled in. The unit I have for the indicators seems to agree with what you say, being a non-standard one.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:56 pm

You check spark by connecting a spare spark plug to the HT lead - and laying it on the cylinder head. Then turn the engine with the handle and watch for a spark!

Post by **jackkelleher** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:01 pm

Thanks people... That's great stuff. bmcecosse, I checked all that stuff part from the points gap, and it's all fine; what's the best way to check the points gap? I don't have a feeler gauge- is there an alternative way to do it? Oh, and one problem; my car was last restored by a complete idiot, who did a whole load of botch jobs I've had to fix. Possibly as a result of one of them, the pins don't push right in. I tried...

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:23 pm

Best to get hold of feelers - but piece of thin card will do for now! Have you found a spark yet ?

Post by **jackkelleher** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:33 pm

I'm just about to go and test, we shall soon see...

Post by **jackkelleher** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:00 pm

Well, as it turns out, I don't have a spark plug remover or spare plugs. We just moved over from England to America, you see, and all our stuff is scattered around. Actually that's why I had to rewire the car in the first place- the transport agency melted the lighting and starter circuitry... It seems that I'm going to have to wait a while. I'll update this if anything happens. I'm new to the world of Morris restoration (got the Morris for my 14th birthday, been working on it since, almost exactly a year now), so I'll probably be on here for help quite a bit...
Thanks.

Post by **wibble_puppy** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:35 pm

jackkelleher wrote: I'm new to the world of Morris restoration (got the Morris for my 14th birthday, been working on it since, almost exactly a year now), so I'll probably be on here for help quite a bit....

Hi Jack and welcome to the forum!

I'm new to restoration too, I'm working on my 1971 van atm, and it's great when other people post about problems cos then you can learn from them - so thanks for posting this and I really hope you get it sorted. I thought bmcecosse had hit it for sure when he suggested that the leads might be on the wrong plugs. curses.

how frustrating not to have the kit you need to hand

Perhaps a good book on car electrical systems might be a help? I've got one by Dave Pollard which seems pretty good and isn't too technical for my tiny brain.

look forward to seeing you around on the forum

wibble xx

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 4:39 pm

Are you sure it's a 1958 car ? If so - it should have trafficators - the little yellow arms that stick out at the side. That model would not have had the 8 way relay - except perhaps if supplied for USA market in the first place. Should cost almost nothing for a spark plug spanner - try any local Tire/Accessory place. Any decent socket set will have one in there anyway!

Post by **jackkelleher** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:42 pm

Were the trafficators phased out for '59? I've been told it's a '58, but it was first registered in '59, so there's a chance it was a '59. Don't know how much difference that makes... I just checked the sparks, and there was no spark at all. There is definitely power coming to the distributor through the wire from the starter- and the earth from the dizzy contact to the points arm is also live. This leads me to suspect the condenser... The car, I think, was first registered in Scotland. Which shouldn't have made any difference to specs, I'm guessing...

Post by **jackkelleher** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:50 pm

wibble_puppy wrote:Hi Jack and welcome to the forum!

Thanks, wibble puppy... It is helpful having all this discussion, isn't it? I've just been browsing and there are some great tips.
By the way, I think if I remember correctly you were the one with the drinking conundrum?.. You could have a tank in the back and use a standard manual wiper pump and some standard windscreen spray tubing routed through the interior to direct water to the dashboard, andf then just have a loose end near your mouth to spray the water in... Just a crazy idea, inspired by your comment about a drip. Or it could be adapted to go to a container, and that way the container need only be stored upright while used. So when it's empty, stow it until you need to fill it again...
Just an idea.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:46 am

What do the rear lights look like - are they all red - or are they red and orange ?

Post by **wibble_puppy** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:00 am

jackkelleher wrote: You could have a tank in the back <snip> Just an idea.

I can see you are going to fit in just fine here Jack

BTW are you English? If you are and you have "that cute English accent" I'm betting a fiver that you could look up a friendly local garage and go round and ask their advice - anyone with a heart would do all they could to help a fifteen-year-old Minor enthusiast. They could lend you tools and stuff

Morris Minor Owners Club

Rewiring Hell

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