End of the road?

[dunketh]

Looks like its make or break time for 'Wilbur'.

Just had a poke around underneath to find too much rust.
The drivers side sill is dead, rotten with the worst affected area under the b pillar. The box section that runs alongside this is also rotton.
I gave up digging with my fingers because I wasn't finding any good metal.
You could literally pull the sill and box section to pieces in strips

All this is as a result of bad workmanship in the past.
The sill covers were welded shut. As I was digging large chunks of past metal were falling out. The sill was basically FULL of old metal from previous work.
I have a book of receipts here from garages for the work - work thats going to have to be done completely again.
Being the umpteenth owner I have no come back at all.

No doubt the B pillar itslef is rotten at its end so who knows where this will stop.
As far as I can tell the rest of the car is solid. The other side and the rest of the chassis incl legs is 100% solid.

Trouble is I can't weld so depending on garage quotes I may well end up breaking him.
I've booked it in for Wednesday next week as to be fair I don't even feel safe driving it with what amounts to no structural support whatsoever on my side of the car.

Wish me luck.

[Willie]

Sounds nasty but if it is only the sill sections then a specialist garage would have no problems. The trouble is that if there is that much rot it is likely that neighbouring areas are also due for attention so I wish you good luck. The roof and the doors, when closed, are holding the car together.

[rayofleamington]

As I was digging large chunks of past metal were falling out. The sill was basically FULL of old metal from previous work.

Sadly that is a VERY common finding. Cover sills have been in use since sills were invented but even a cover sill is better than filler or fibreglass (finding fibregalss sills is not a funny experience I can vouch for that ). I've even heard of a jag that had its sills filled with concrete so that they would appear to be solid at the MOT.

If it's just one sill, then the car shouldn't be scrap. The inner sill (floor extension) repair panels can be obtained including the last 6" of floor pan so even if the rot extends into the floor, it can be fixed without extra parts or effort.
I'd strongly recommend looking for a Minor specialist that has a good reputation for structural work - there are plenty around but often they are quite a distance away. If the work is done by someone who doesn't know Minors then you run a higher risk of having either paying more or having a lesser quality repair.
As for choosing which place to go for - this is far from easy as the quality of repair is only evident after many years (hopefully many decades)

[dunketh]

Its annoying as I have receipts for most of the work all from the same garage, I only assume it was local to a previous owner.

Sadly its not the first of their cockups.

The cars had 2 new front wings on it during its life. Until I had the car they'd never even been undersealed or painted underneath! They were still in their black storage paint.
The B pillar on the drivers side sits in about half an inch so the doors look stupid when shut and the driver side rear arch sits in by the same amount where the box section has clearly been bent in (accident?) at one point in its life. Its solid though, just not 'square'.

The chap doing the work has done previous small jobs on my fiestas. Hes your typical older, beardy grey-haired mechanic. Lives in his overalls - very much like the guy from 'Last of the sumer wine'. He's also an ex minor owner so I trust him to do a decent job.
In the past I've had the choice of 'solid' or 'solid and pretty' with him.
Needless to say one's a lot cheaper than tother.

[Packedup]

but even a cover sill is better than filler or fibreglass (finding fibregalss sills is not a funny experience I can vouch for that ). I've even heard of a jag that had its sills filled with concrete so that they would appear to be solid at the MOT.

How about plaster?

I kid you not, I had a car that when I bought it had a lot of dust in the boot. Had to jack it up one day, and there was a crumbling crunching, and the jack stayed up as the car, minus rear sill section came back down. The previous owner had clearly been a plasterer (and a good one too going by his work), and had used his skills to scrape through an MOT by the look of things.

As for the welding on this Minor - Affordably solid and legal is better than dead disassembled IMO

[wibble_puppy]

aw dunketh i feel for you. i do hope your man-in-overalls (he sounds a good sort) can help you save Wilbur. good luck and let us know how you get on

wibble

[Chris Morley]

Looks like its make or break time for 'Wilbur'.

All this is as a result of bad workmanship in the past.
The sill covers were welded shut. As I was digging large chunks of past metal were falling out. The sill was basically FULL of old metal from previous work.
I have a book of receipts here from garages for the work - work thats going to have to be done completely again. Being the umpteenth owner I have no come back at all.

As far as I can tell the rest of the car is solid. The other side and the rest of the chassis incl legs is 100% solid. Trouble is I can't weld so depending on garage quotes I may well end up breaking him.

It is a real shock the first time you discover rotten metal - but it can be cut out & replaced. Most unrestored Minors have rust issues in this area. If we are talking about replacing a boxing plate, inner & outer sills, the bottom of the B post etc. I imagine that a Minor specialist will charge you £300-£400 (not including painting and cover plates). Got to be worth it for an otherwise sound car.

I've booked it in for Wednesday next week as to be fair I don't even feel safe driving it with what amounts to no structural support whatsoever on my side of the car

.

You still have some support from the inner & top sides of the box section - but strength would be compromised in the event of an accident.

[chickenjohn]

Yes, I agree- not the end of the road- just a typical Minor suffering from past bodged repairs- MOT garages often just weld new metal (unpainted at the inside) new steel over rust holes.

Cut it all our, replace with proper repair sections, paint it and protect properly (wax treatment) and it will last ages.

[dunketh]

Cheers guys.
I know its worth it in the end. I'm willing to 'entertain' a price of £300 but thats got to be my maximum.
I'll paint and finish it myself to keep costs down, even if it means mucking about to get it all nice. I just need the 'important' work done by a pro... my past attempts at welding have been horrific.

[Rob_Jennings]

My car required some chassis work including both sills (figured in the price I bought the car for) for a complete sill and box section it was something over 200 quid at a morris competent garage. if you're adding the B post bottom I guess that moves it closer to 300.

Problem is that many people patch to pass an MOT, don't blame the garage they often just do as instructed. Many people only look short term so spend 1/2 the cost now for a repair that only lasts a few years. I know it hurts the wallet, but make sure the garage knows you're keeping the car long term and that you want a proper job done, up front costs are higher but its worth it.

[JimK]

Rob, are you happy with the work your garage did?

Is the respray been scheduled yet?

[Rob_Jennings]

Would the T&C allow me to say if I were not happy, as subjective opinion is not allowed while a direct statement of fact would be?

Fortunately I'm happy with the work.

The chassis is now very sound and should be good for many more years, the work was neat and the it was well worth adding a clean and paint for the whole underside so it all looks very good now. Still need a small adjustment to one of the the door catches, but I can't get hold of a new catch (anyone out there got a good/new catch for 2 door/trav?)

I have acquired 2 new wings to fit for the front, and want to replace the sill finishers and kick plates for a really neat finish. but I have to tackle the wood this spring/summer before thinking about the respray. Thats mostly my elbow grease to take back preserve and finish, its sound otherwise. The respray will come some time at the end of the year perhaps?

[JimK]

Would the T&C allow me to say if I were not happy, as subjective opinion is not allowed while a direct statement of fact would be?

A negative account backed out by evidence is, as far as I can see, not libellous but is against the site T&Cs. But lets not go there, as

Fortunately I'm happy with the work.

The chassis is now very sound and should be good for many more years, the work was neat and the it was well worth adding a clean and paint for the whole underside so it all looks very good now.

Might have to ask you about this tonight. There's years of wax on the Lemming's underside, and I'm starting to think it would be a good idea to take it all off and start again.

I have to tackle the wood this spring/summer before thinking about the respray.

First time the forecast says a few days of warmish sunny weather, I'll take a few half-days off and do the wood on Wifey's car. Right back to the bare wood, then Sikkens Cetol Novatech and Novatop.

Dunketh - I hope you can get it sorted. It would a shame for you to lose the car for the sake of a few hundred quid (or about ten minutes' depreciation on a modern car...). If I had the ability to help, I would.

[Kevin]

Hi Rob
If as an individual you wish to compliment someones work for of quality of service, value for money or just good old fashioned workmanship there is no problem in doing so.

[aupickup]

so we can say if a garage does a good job, but not if it does a bad job ah got it, democratic

[Kevin]

got it, democratic

Yes as in the terms and conditions you signed up to

No bad or abusive language, defamatory, negative or libellous remarks or comments.

[dunketh]

The system still works.

When/if anyone needs any work done they can simply ask for recommendations. If a garage/supplier receives none its then up to them whether they wish to take the risk.

[Rob_Jennings]

A positive report only system cannot work.

consider a garage that has 10 positive reports and 100 negative reports.... but you can only see the 10 positive ones, so you assume its a good place to go... so off you go and end up as the 101 negative case, but you can't tell anyone that they messed your car up.

I await the new system to see what it might bring. ideally it would be nice to have an annual ranking of the service providers and a proper critic of poor and good service. Then you might look at the position and their distance from you to get the best informed choice of where to go.

anyway I do hope you get your sill and B post sorted out. It's a common enough fail for many minors yet it can be sorted properly and is not the best reason to write one off.

[Kevin]

I await the new system to see what it might bring.

You see that is part of the problem.

Too many will wait and see and not get involved with the working party, to help shape things you should go along and see what the implications and restrictions are and offer your own points of view.
And I bet that those who critisize the outcome will not have given any input, just like the message board changes after the AGM.

Jumps off soapbox and goes for a cup of tea.

[dunketh]

anyway I do hope you get your sill and B post sorted out. It's a common enough fail for many minors yet it can be sorted properly and is not the best reason to write one off

Thanks.
Its definitely going to be done. I've made my mind up 100%.
Its impossible to explain to a non minor owner but you guys will understand. I just can't let it die. It'd be like losing a pet dog.

Its gonna put my handling and drivetrain ambitions on hold for a while but its made me re-focus on whats important. I'm going to make sure the car is 100% solid before going mad with it.