Anybody fitted the Owen Burton Ford-based vented disc kit?

Post by **JimK** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:30 pm

I mean the one sold by ESM/BMMC/everybodyelse.

What were your experiences of fitting? Was it really "bolt-on"? Any modifications required to retained parts like kingpins?

Other vented disc kits are around £200 more so I want to establish whether that extra expense is advisable or unnecessary.

Perhaps a PM would be a good idea? Mods, if I post a summary of opinions on my own website and link to it from here, will I avoid any attachment of legal liability to the club?

Post by **Matt** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:38 pm

Prehaps you could investiagte the brakes on the cheap thread in mechanical and use a set if fiesta vented calipers and vw vented disks?

its just and idea....

Post by **JimK** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:48 pm

Matt wrote:Prehaps you could investiagte the brakes on the cheap thread in mechanical and use a set if fiesta vented calipers and vw vented disks?

its just and idea....

Hmm... 1.4 and 1.6 Zetec Fiestas had vented discs. I liked the Fiesta idea as I have one but it has solid discs and they overheat easily.

I know about Fiestas but Golfs are a mystery to me. Worth investigating though...

Post by **patgarrett** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:17 pm

Hi if you just want disc brakes on the cheap there is a tread on useful tips. I've just done it but it is for ford solid discs.

Post by **JimK** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:27 pm

Thanks Pat, but I already have Marina-based solid discs on the saloon.

My vague idea is to shift those to Wifey's Trav and get some serious brakes for my saloon. There may be a trackday or two in the car's future so I want excellent brakes.

Post by **patgarrett** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:45 pm

Well jim there is a disc conversion with vented discs and 4 or 6 pot calippers but I can't remember where I saw it sorry. If you find and choose to fit it that would give you some real mans brakes. As far as I can tell some disc kits use ally hubs and others steel, this may explane the differance in price. Hope this helps Pat.

Post by **JimK** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:52 pm

patgarrett wrote:Well jim there is a disc conversion with vented discs and 4 or 6 pot calippers but I can't remember where I saw it sorry. If you find and choose to fit it that would give you some real mans brakes.

I've heard from a trader that he has a 4-pot kit in development but it will cost serious cash.

I don't think it's absurd power I'm after - the car isn't that heavy. It's stable temperatures that are the goal. Vented discs with some directed airflow would be fine, I think.

Post by **aupickup** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:40 pm

forget the owen burton one, go for the jlh one, also it is easier to fit than the owen burton

Post by **bmcecosse** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:10 pm

Do you really think you will need all that fancy braking ? The idea is to carry the speed through the corners - not turn it into heat with brakes!!

Post by **aupickup** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:18 pm

well i am glad that i ahve had disc brakes on my vans

Post by **jonathon** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:24 pm

The standard Ford vented kit with standard calipers but Ferrodo or Mintex pads are more than adequate for a modded minor. We have used this set up on a customers track car with no fade despite numerous 0-100-0 tests,in succession. This we achieved in 23 secs. If you need info on the 6 kits we offer please do PM me. Jim , give John at Mid Sussex a ring and ask him your question you will recieve an honest answer, with reasons I am not allowed to mention on this forum.

Post by **pauln** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:37 pm

I have fitted the kit from ESM and it bolts straight on (there is a small amount of filing and drilling to do). The only parts of the kit you really need are the hubs and caliper adapter brackets (may pay to get the nuts, bolts and washer kit as these are high tensile parts). You can source the escort/sierra calipers off ebay and obtain discs (depending on pcd will need redrilling) which are xr3/sierra 245/24mm and goodridge type hoses with the imperial minor brake to metric ford couplings from somewhere like rally design. That would provide some savings in cost, only get refurbished calipers off e-bay though. I see Jlh has posted while i have been writing this so he may remind be of something i have missed.

Post by **jonathon** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:10 pm

Here in lay the problem Paul. You will not be able to purchase the hubs only. In our part it is for legal and quality reasons.

Post by **pauln** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:47 pm

Oh thats a shame. Very soon after fitting my kit I realised that i would have been better off using a ford axle and changing hubs to ford pcd on the front instead of the ital spacing and axle i used. Not sure I entirely understand the legal and quality bit. If i wanted then I could go out and buy alloy hubs for my cortina but that would not imply any liability to the supplier if i used inferior discs and calipers to match.

Post by **jonathon** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:12 pm

I hear what you are saying Paul, but we insist that our products are built to a standard and not down to a price. I f we did sell the hubs and you fitted your own parts or replaced the bearings with inferior ones then the proof of liability in the case of failure would inevitably concern ourselves. So we only do the full package which is covered by our product and manufacturing liability insurance.

Post by **JimK** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:28 pm

OK, some comments:

BMC: there's a limit to how much speed you can carry through corners

I want good brakes that enable me to brake repeatedly from 60 to 30 on the road (and from faster on the track) with no loss of performance whatsoever. Experience with my Fiesta (930kg, solid discs) is that solid discs overheat and warp. That's why I'd like better cooled brakes.

Pauln: I've been thinking hard about whether to abandon the Minor stud spacing and go Ford. Some have pointed out that there is a wide variety of wheels available, but I really like the wheels I have. Not sure what to do.
And to me, "bolt-on" doesn't include drilling and filing...

Two options exist:
1) An Escort RS2000 axle with 9" drums (less diff) is about £100 from Escort-Tec. Would need a set of wheels at around £400. Slippy diff for about £300. Total £800ish.
2) Keep Minor axle, fit armoured halfshafts and slippy diff. Total about £800ish.

Which to do?

Post by **pauln** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:14 pm

Re drilling and filing. The caliper bracket needs to fit flush against the old mounting points you just file a small flat. The holes in the minor upright need to be slightly bigger. I am sure this would apply to all kits (Jlh?).
See what you mean about the wheels (my personal choice would be minilites or revolutions) There is a wide range of Ford ones but they are mainly 13" or alloys (much stronger though). Lotus steels (if they fit) are now getting expensive.
Re Lsd in a minor a properly located axle is more use than an lsd. Sort axle now decide if you need an lsd later.
I must have a measure and see if a ford stub axle will fit a minor upright (if i remember correctly they used to swap the minor one for the marina in that brake conversion).

Post by **JimK** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:21 pm

Thanks pauln. I had planned to include a slippy diff because of the number of times I try and pull out of junctions only to have one wheel spinning. Axle location is also something I will address.

Still don't know whether use a Ford axle or not. The Ford axle would give me many more choice of diff ratio.

Post by **chrisd87** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:21 pm

Surely the better option would be to fit decent half-shafts to the Minor axle with the standard diff, then decide later if you need an LSD? I can get the back end out nicely on corners with the standard one

That way you'd get to keep your current wheels too.

Post by **JimK** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:48 pm

Well Chris, that's the way I'm leaning. But, the only really strong Minor halfshafts I've found are more than £300 a pair, which is a lot considering Quaife only charge £200 for theirs (though they don't fit Minors).

The "hardened" halfshafts are much cheaper but none of the traders selling them has managed to come up with figures showing how strong these various halfshafts are. They recommend I buy the very expensive ones, but clearly the advice is not impartial.

I can fit any Mk2 Escort axle and know that it will handle the power.