Points of view

Post by **RogerRust** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:23 pm

What colour is a black cat in the dark?
In space no one can hear you scream.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:44 pm

With a Mini - you can buy a whole new shell - but it's still a Mini. Does anyone (Heritage ? or anyone else) plan to make new Minor shells ? New shell for a Traveller - or a Convertible - wouldn't be too hard surely. That would be interesting.

Post by **JimK** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 7:04 pm

bmcecosse wrote:With a Mini - you can buy a whole new shell - but it's still a Mini.

How do they get round the VED issue? I thought it would make it a new car and hence liable to standard rates of VED.

Does anyone (Heritage ? or anyone else) plan to make new Minor shells ? New shell for a Traveller - or a Convertible - wouldn't be too hard surely. That would be interesting.

I think there'd be a reasonable market for that. There are areas on a Minor that are basically unfixable, as Paulk said, so folks may well pay for a new shell. How much does a Mini sell cost?

Post by **paulk** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 7:55 pm

About £2750 I think then you have to paint and so on.

Post by **Packedup** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:30 pm

JimK wrote: How do they get round the VED issue? I thought it would make it a new car and hence liable to standard rates of VED.

The DVLA have no problem with you reshelling into a new original spec shell, it's considered a repair such as replacing a dead engine. However you can't replace the shell, fit a different engine, suspension etc and stay legit.

You can also get new shells for Midgets and MGBs... Given there's a fair few Minors around and they can command pretty high prices (compared to other mass produced BMC/ BL stuff of the era) I'm actually quite surprised Heritage aren't already making Minor shells.

Post by **Chadbrook** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:43 am

Wondering how the DVLA would know you had used a new shell... even if you modify at the same time ?.... hypothetical question because no one makes new shells... but leading from that how many of you own a scrap Minor for parts ?... or just swap parts between Minors ?... and then we have ebay where you can buy a Minor V5 and in theory make one appear pheonix like from the ashes.... or scrap yards... (oops recycling facilities)... maybe something to watch for in the future.... because a car has a V5 does it make it a car ?

I doubt Heritage have the tooling to make Minor shells... it would have been scrapped because the mini replaced it so spectacularly but could be worth a question to BMW or the demolition contractors at longbridge.

Post by **Gareth** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 9:15 am

I'm guessing that the body number is different. It does make me wonder, however. There are a number of us on here who have had to replace engines, gearboxes, suspension &c... and remained legal while doing that. How would those people stand, legally, if they had bought the car say some 10-15 years before with a new shell. Now, the shell wouldn't be original. Could simply replacing a cracked axle casing, for example, now make the car non-original and therefore liable for q-plating / engineers reports &c.

Interesting thread, this.

Post by **Judge** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:00 am

Gareth wrote:Interesting thread, this.

Thanks Gareth, I thought it might get the old grey matter working

Hopefully a few more messageboard users will join the debate, and offer their views.

Post by **alex_holden** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:53 am

I'd say even if you replaced everything you could with pattern parts it'd still be a Minor, albeit a heavily restored one. If you changed the drivetrain to one from a different vehicle but kept the same basic body shell then it'd be a modified Minor. Where it gets into the grey area for me is cars with a custom tube chassis and the upper part of a Minor body shell attached to them.

Post by **8009STEVE** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:01 pm

cars with a custom tube chassis

To keep the original reg no, you have to score points. the chassis counts 5. You need at least 8.

Post by **plastic_orange** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:57 pm

Don't rock the boat on this one.

Pete

Post by **jonathon** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 5:41 pm

WELCOME TO THE MORRIS MINOR OWNERS CLUB!

Founded in 1976, the MMOC today boasts 14,500 members.
1. AIMS
Our aims are simply to promote the preservation and use of the postwar Morris Minor, 1.6 million of which were built between 1948 and 1971.
So if we are now sub dividing minors, i.e those which no longer are Minors for example 'kit cars','copies','replicas', how will these be viewed by the 'club' and its definition of what is a Minor.

Just hope the membership doesn't suffer Bill

Post by **Judge** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 6:16 pm

Welcome back Jonathon. As I said right at the beginning of this thread, don't take it too seriously. There is no intention of sub dividing the Minor. In fact I thought by starting the thread, and asking for peoples views, I was showing what a diverse group we were, all welcome, and all catered for by the MMOC. But if there are messageboard users that think this is not the case, I will willingly have the thread deleted. However I hope that equally these same people will not take your comments too seriously

Post by **jonathon** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 6:22 pm

Thats why I used

and

because I was not wrting too seriously.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 6:53 pm

With a Mini - it's fine to use a brand new shell - which comes with new doors/bonnet and boot (if you want them) to re-shell an old Mini. In theorey - you should use almost everything from the old car - and it keeps it's original reg number and free road tax status. Chassis number plate is transferred over (or a new replica fitted) and there is no official inspection of the car - you just do it and get an MOT and that's it on the road. In fact I first did this in 1973 - and walked into my local road tax office, and registered the car as brand new - and was given a brand new reg number at the time. The lad just asked to see the chassis plate - I had stamped one in brass with my own initials and birthdate! Nothing to pay - except the year's road tax. Sadly - you can't do that now. The thing is - about 1 minute after you have transferred all the bits to the new shell - there is nothing to stop you swapping the engine/gearbox/wheels - in fact anything!! So in practice - many snap up (sorry, find in a drawer) a V5 (with or without the old wreck) of a pre 73 car - and make up the car from any parts they have available. Because the front subframe mounts have changed over the years - it's now necessary to use a newish front subby anyway - but apart from that - all other bits will fit, or can easily be made to fit.
I believe the MMOC should be trying to put some pressure on Heritage to make some new shells - the roof will be the hard part - which is why a Convertible shell would surely not be too difficult - and a Traveller would only need the short front roof section. Any supporters for this idea ?

Post by **jonathon** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:07 pm

BMC, with the current cost of £10,000 per pressing operation, I think that this would totally prohibitive.
A while ago we were going to invest in new boot lids, and had to withdraw when the cost of the tooling reached £30,000. We have also worked on both MG and Mini shells and have been disapointed in the quality of fit. Admitedly its all new metal and can be tweeked to create a better product ,but if we look at the quality of Minor panels available from the source you suggest, then there will have to be a measurable increase in both fit, finish, and quality control. Must say I think in theory the idea is sound, just can't see it ever happening.

Post by **paulk** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 9:05 pm

I was under the impression Heritage were using the press tools from BL so didn't have to go about building new tools.

This was also why I thought A new Minor shell was unlikely as all the press tools must be long gone.

Post by **jonathon** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 9:22 pm

I believe Heritage have some original tooling, but only for panels not shells, unfortunately the ones they refurbish seem to be the ones we are experiencing problems with, hence my sceptical posting.