Points of view

[Judge]

This is a light hearted question I raised under another thread and thought I would post here for your views.

New floor, (pattern parts), new wings (pattern parts), Repair sections (pattern parts) welded to bottoms of a & b posts, bottom of bootlid and doors, Refurbished engine, gearbox and back axle (using pattern parts), all new trim fitted, new bumpers (pattern parts) fitted, stainless steel exhaust fitted, halogen lights fitted, heated rear screen fitted, etc, etc. Question - Morris Minor, copy of Morris Minor, or kit car?

[JimK]

It's a bit like Grandfather's Axe: It's had three new handles and two new heads, but it's still the same axe.

In your example, it's a Minor. I say that if the shape is still close to the original shape, and has close to the original structure under the shape, then it's Minor.

My car, with Ford gearbox and axle, Ital/Metro engine, disc brakes and alloy wheels, will still be a Minor proper to me.

At the far end of the scale, Innovator's racer is not a Minor. It is a completely custom-built car with virtually no parts in common, it just uses a couple of bits of Minor panelling. To borrow a description from some racing series, it's a Minor silhouette.

[Judge]

Thanks Jim. Next

[ben739]

Trigger had the same push broom for 10 years, 5 new handles and 4 new heads.

[mal]

I would say ' copy of a Morris Minor'
Basically it's a brand new car, fair enough we all have to replace parts, ie; wings, floor panels,exhaust etc; but your description sounds like there aint much of the original car left... this is just my opinion Give me an original looked after Moggy, mine has had some new parts but basically it's a standard original car... as an aside.. the A35 I bought last year is nearly 100% original with only one owner and 38K original miles...( proven ) that's what I call, and prefer, an original 'OLD' car

Trigger had the same push broom for 10 years, 5 new handles and 4 new heads.

Didn't know horses could sweep up

Mal

[Judge]

Thanks Mal

[plastic_orange]

If it has a Minor body shell it is a Minor.

Pete

[Judge]

Thanks Pete

[Kevin]

As its trying to keeping to the Original Morris Minor specification and pattern parts may have been all that was available, I would suggest RefurbishedMorris Minor.

[chickenjohn]

If, hypothetically speaking, Morris motors were still in existence and they were still making Minors, with current business trends, I could see Morris Motors PLC selling branded "Morris Genuine panels" that are actually sub contracted to LMC Hadrian for production.

So, yes, its still a Morris Minor, just as much as any other, provided its to original (or as close as) spec.

[Judge]

Please don't take this next question to seriously, its just something to get the old grey matter working. Just a bit of banter

So hypothetically if a Van Gogh painting was 90% damaged, and was not in its original frame, then repainted by a decendent of Van Gogh using modern paints and mounted in a period 'style frame it would still be a Van Gogh?

[chickenjohn]

They consider a steam train to be a re-build of the original if they use just a few original parts and re-make/ re-furbish the rest. Personally, I'd rather have a rust free repaired Minor looking good, MOT'd and on the road than an original decaying pile of rust and tacked on patches derelict in my garden. Thats why I like to restore them.

[Judge]

Very true, if it wasn't for people like you that thought this way about such cars, then there would be a lot less classics on the road.

[Robins]

Very much a grey area that. It's all very well saying as long it looks like a Minor it is, but people say I look like my dad, but i'm not him, i'm me!
Of course going by DVLA rules a shell of a Minor on something is not a Minor.
But really in my opinion of what you first said Judge, only the floor and repair sections being a sturctural part of the original car everything else is cosmetic, so as long as it was replaced to original spec. The drive train you say refurbished so I assume you mean original parts rebuild with new components. But then you do have a point with the painting, I would say the painting was a copy. Oh, you could have a point, this needs some more thought!

[Judge]

Better than the chicken and egg debate don't you think

[paulk]

I would say still a minor.

But With current body panels you can probably only replace 65-70% of the bodyshell if you wanted too.

This comes up in various forms at Sadmog quite alot.

If you look at what you can't change

Bulkhead,Scuttle, Prop tunnel, under seat centre, Seat back,parcel tray, Roof , rear quarters(2dr) , Bonnet and Door frames. Its got to be 25% of total metal at least. probably closer to 35-40% by weight.

Actually if anyone has a rotten 2dr shell , an angle grinder, a panel catalogue and a set of scales I would be interested in the results.

[les]

I'd swap an original Minor for a restored Van Gogh, if that's any help.

[Judge]

Not too restored

[Chadbrook]

There are actualy two questions here (maybe three)... to refurbish a Minor to original or as close as possible spec or to update and/or modify.

Unfortunatly cars,,, even Minors... need to be repaired. In another 50 or 60 years time would we prefer to know a few refurbished vehicles are still rolling or just let our children look at old pictures and propped up shells in motor museums? Does it matter the new floor pan was made in Sri Lanka ? If its original spec its a Minor, as far as im concerned if somone were to build a Minor from brand new spares today it would still be a Minor.

Update and modify is a totaly different question and will be the subject of personal opinion and the degree of modification. My personal opinion is yes they are still Minors in the same as a VW Beetle beach buggy is still a Beetle.... but then I do have a Rover V8 in my shed

[mal]

C'mon then Bill.. do tell your views ??

Mal