Reliability quest.

Post by **Kevin** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 8:59 am

If you can't leave it 3 weeks and start, that's not reliable. Lean in through the window of your efi car, turn the key, it starts. THAT's reliable.

I am not saying that there is anything wrong with electronic ignition (I agree with Hugh`s point) but my sick rattling big ended minor was started for the 1st time yesterday after a 6 week sit in the front garden with points and it still started 1st time, so to my mind there is nothing wrong with the standard set-up just the use you put the car to (the M25 was not an issue in the minors heyday) and as Hugh said it makes some of the maintenance issues easier. So it really comes down to personal choice & circumstances and what you use the car for.
As for a radio with memory that could be useful for me as I have a terrible one

Post by **MikeTrav68** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:09 pm

You're right of course, progress is it's own enemy. There's about 30 micros in a modern car, all draining the battery...so it needs a good alternator. No such problems on a minor! The A-series distributor has quite a small radius and I find it quite susceptible to damp such as condensation (worse on my mini, stuck out front). Electronic ignition can compensate for a bit of spark/charge loss. Plus you can open the plug gap up a little, which makes the spark more likely to hit some fuel on starting. Millions of cars have used Kettering's points since he invented it nearly 100 years ago, so clearly it works. My point is simply that today's cars are more reliable, and electronic ignition is one aspect of the progress that you can fit to your minor. Actually it's great for starting the old Mog off the crank handle too! I guess that's just me showing off

)

While I'm on my technology soapbox, and mainly just for interest, there's a fuel problem too when you leave your car for weeks. The more volatile components evaporate from the float bowl. Fuel injection is usually a return system, so when you come to restart you get a fresh supply, plus generally better atomisation at the low airflow of cranking.

Post by **Kevin** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:23 pm

I find it quite susceptible to damp such as condensation

Not really suffered from that problem, but if I did I would just use an ignition sealer once a month or so, because they dont last much longer than that.

Post by **Cam** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:01 am

No, me neither. I used to get it terribly in my Minis and my Rover 216 if it is pouring and you are doing 80 down the motorway! Never had a problem in the Mog though!

With regard to the fuel atomisation. Apparently (according to Vizard) the A-series likes it's fuel in fairly large droplets which explains why a carb'd car feels and responds better than a fuel injected car (A-series anyway). I feel inclined to agree with him as I have driven both a few times, and although the fuel injection may be technically superior, it lacks soul!! The fuel injected A-series engines don't feel right. Too smooth and linear. They seem to have lost their character.

Post by **57traveller** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 8:45 am

This is the wrong thread for this but as there was a mention of starting the car after a prolonged spell of inactivity and I'm also probably preaching to the initiated - on the older cars with pull start and prior to actually running the engine, don't switch on the ignition but give the engine a few short spins with the starter motor to get the oil flowing into the bearings, 4 or 5 times is usually enough, then start it. You will find that there is no bearing rattle and the oil light goes out almost immediately. Of course the battery needs to be well charged first.
On later cars, with key start, just disconnect the ignition l.t. side from the coil and do the same or use the starter solenoid, if possible, with the ignition off (this can also apply to pull start cars).
Use this method also after an oil and filter change but make sure the filter is full of oil before it's fitted.
I've found that after 4 or 5 spins there is a reading on my oil pressure gauge and the oil light is out when the ignition is switched on.
Probably not as effective, but if the battery is not so good, a few turns with the handle wouldn't do any harm.

Post by **Cam** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:11 am

Yes, that's a good idea. Similar to when you start up a freshly rebuilt engine for the first time. I also remove the spark plugs so there is less of a drain on the battery and it spins easier. Once you have oil pressure then put the plugs back in and fire up!

Post by **rayofleamington** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:33 pm

Use this method also after an oil and filter change but make sure the filter is full of oil before it's fitted.

Fully agree on that point.
Not sure I would say modern cars are reliable, but modern fuel injection is just about getting very reliable.

Post by **57traveller** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 1:12 pm

Removing the spark plugs would also be good practice, with ref. to my post, and refitting before starting. Less drain on the battery, as Cam suggests, if it's a bit tired.
Also if in the event of any water leakage into the cylinders after a prolonged stoppage (it does happen) would avoid a nasty and expensive occurence and indicate a possible problem (head gasket, cracked head etc.) - because unfortunately water doesn't compress.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 1:32 pm

why can't halogens be made with this shape?

The saloon I just gave away had Halogens, which were identical shaped glass to the standard sealed beam.
As they weren't sealed beam the reflector is prone to corrosion from damp, but the light they gave was brilliant

Post by **Gareth** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 2:39 pm

Halogens are made in that shape. The original-style Lucas Button Tripod lamps are still available from Holden V&C and other outlets. Made to the original shape and design.

Also, to stop condensation and corrosion - smear the rubber sealing boot with petroleum jelly. It works wonders aparrently, although I haven't tried it...

...which is why my lights are misted up, and the reflector's going rusty...

Post by **rayofleamington** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 5:42 pm

...which is why my lights are misted up, and the reflector's going rusty...

which is why I left the non-selaed beam Halogens on the car before it went.

Post by **Gareth** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 10:47 am

Those original-style domed lights look really good, so maybe if I'm feeling flush at the NEC show...

I'll remember to smear the rubbers this time, tho...

Post by **67trav** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 5:50 pm

Re:the removal of plugs to spin the engine / build up pressure. Everything said is true, but please can I reiterate 57traveller's advice to disconnect low tension terminal before doing so. I once was trying to get an old Sierra started (severely flooded), having removed plugs but NOT disconnecting ignition, spun engine over to clear (very wet) bores...can you guess the result?

Fortunately the second fire extinguisher available worked...However, I should hate a Mog to be the victim of such an error! (also demonstrates the value in testing fire extinguishers regularly).
(PS we escaped with a destroyed air intake hose and slightly charred underbonnet sound deadening felt, and a very shocked and embarased me)

Post by **MikeTrav68** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 1:25 am

So here's a trade off, and I don't suppose we will have consensus. On rebuild, I too take the plugs out and crank for pressure. But normal starts, well, the bores are splash lubricated so if you crank without start you are trading bearing wear for bore wear. Up to you.

On fuel injection, A-series has a unique problem. Getting technical, beware! Older fuel injection systems are continuous, modern are designed for 4-port (like those DV used). Today the injection occurs on the back of the closed, hot inlet valve, to promote vaporisation and low emissions. Yes, it displaces some air and reduces power. Fuel into the cylinder comes from two places - direct from the injector, and sucked off the head/manifold walls ('tau-x' model).
On an A-series, the best you can do is squirt through the open valve. This is because with the joined up inlet port, if you tried to inject on the back of cyl #1 valve, then cyl #2 is actively sucking your fuel at the time (i.e. it's open!). The trouble is, even when you inject on the open valve only, the fuel nearby on the manifold and cylinder head for #1 was generally pinched by cyl #2. So it's still difficult to get the same amount of fuel per cycle into #1 and #2.
With a carb, there's fuel *everywhere*. So the direct (atomised, tau) component is less significant than in the injection system. And the fuel film 'x' component can draw from the manifold all the way back to the carb. So a carb system is going to get a more even fuel distribution.
BL went injection to get the average fuel accuracy needed for catalyst systems. It wasn't power or driveability!

Post by **grant69** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 6:30 am

Q&H make a halogen bulb with bulge, I paid $16 ea Aus or 4 pound from supercheap over here. I've fitted opti blue bulbs which give a much better white light rather than the pale yellow of the standard bulb, I'm also running higher wattage 60/90 so I don't need driving lights

Post by **Cam** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:20 am

It wasn't power or driveability!

You can say that again, mate! Mind you I have never been a fan of fuel injection on any car. The Minis only had two systems I think. The single port and the twin port injection which was injected into the plenum chamber so for all intents and purposes it was acting like a very controllable carb and like you say the result was that there is fuel everywhere! I don't think they ever did a direct (into each cylinder) injection with the A-series. They did with the Ford kent engine but that has a crossflow head and so you don't get the fuel distribution problem that you get with the siamesed inlets on the A-series.

To be honest whichever delivery method is used I just don't like the feel of fuel injected cars. The delivery seems too smooth and precise it seems to detract from the character of the engine and thus the car. Especially in the case of the A-series.

I remember seeing a twin cam crossflow head produced for the Minis about 10 years ago, maybe from KAD? Would be interesting to have a play with a multi-point injection system with that! I wonder if anyone has ever fitted one to a Minor? Maybe it's not possible if the head has a rear overhang past the block which would not be a problem on a transverse application. Interesting though.........

Post by **rayofleamington** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 5:24 pm

crossflow head produced for the Minis about 10 years ago, maybe from KAD? Would be interesting to have a play with a multi-point injection system with that! I wonder if anyone has ever fitted one to a Minor?

I've also wondered about that - a friend ran a spaceframe mini with an Arden 8 port (crossflow) head for Hillclimb events...
Probably easier to go the Fiat Twincam route on a Minor though!

Post by **Cam** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 6:47 pm

Probably easier to go the Fiat Twincam route on a Minor though!

Yeah, and a damn site cheaper!

Post by **MikeTrav68** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 9:30 pm

Just bought a pair of Halogens from Morris Minor Centre Birmingham, and they have domed fronts. Not quite as much as the Lucas sealed beams - maybe 1/2in protrusion compared to 3/4in, but because they use a metal shield inside the glass freznel is mainly vertical stripes and they look quite period. Wipac Quadoptics part S4694B, MMCB part SUN104, £26/pair.

Post by **Gareth** » Mon Dec 01, 2003 5:24 pm

Yeah... sound exactly like mine (from the same place, too).

Make sure that you smear the rubber on the back - mine have been on for two years (maybe three...?) and the reflectors have gone rather bubbly at the bottoms...