Further Midget brakes thoughts

Post by **paulhumphries** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:10 pm

I think that the wire wheel discs on steel wheel hubs might be the way to go.
They are 20mm shorter which would bring them 20mm further away from upright so that a similar bracket as being discussed for Polo conversion could be used instead of the "J" style.
I posted a message on a MG groups for details of the wire wheel to hub mounting pcd and it would seem to be the same as steel wheel.
I now need to source a disc to do further studies and a mock up.

Someone has pointed me in the direction of -

Morriservice
Paul Asgeirsson
9123 N. Clarendon Avenue
Portland, OR 97203-2750
PAsgeirsson@Worldnet.att.net

He is supposed to sell a disc brake conversion using Midget hubs but the bracket attached by 4 bolts instead of the 4 as with the "J" bracket.

Paul Humphries.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:34 pm

All excellent information - are the shorter discs readily available at a 'fair' price ??

Post by **paulhumphries** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:58 pm

bmcecosse wrote:All excellent information - are the shorter discs readily available at a 'fair' price ??

Wire wheeled are same price as steel wheeled.

Cheapest I can find is £22 a PAIR - including vat !

Paul Humphries

Post by **chrisd87** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:50 pm

Does this still result in a wider track though?

Post by **paulhumphries** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:53 pm

chrisd87 wrote:Does this still result in a wider track though?

The disc is atatched to BACK of hub so track will be the same whether the actual disc is steel or wire wheeled type.

Paul Humphries.

Post by **IslipMinor** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:36 pm

Paul,

Saw your post on the MG BBS.

Before spending any money on a wire wheel disc, I would check the clearance between the Midget caliper and the back of the hub.

Please see the picture below of the Metro caliper in position with a steel wheel disc. there is about 3mm between the caliper and the back of the hub. I don't know what the Midget caliper would be, but I don't think there is very much room to move it much closer to the hub - the difference you need is 20mm?

Post by **bmcecosse** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:13 pm

But the Mutro caliper is a great lump of iron (think unsprung weight!!) - Fiesta calipers are much less heavy and a whole lot less bulky. But it's a good point to check whatever caliper can clear the hub flange ok before investing!!

Post by **Matt** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:54 pm

Yeah wire wheel brakes are the same price as steel wheel ones, I got a pair from watford MG breakers for £18 2 years ago (at the Beaulieu Autojumble)

Interesting idea Roy... I think the distance between the mounting bolts on the midget caliper is the same as that on a mini, but because of the difference in the shape of the hub, and the additional clearance much later calipers with sliders that arnt shaped as nicely might work! I believe (but am probably wrong) that spridget disks are 8.4" Dia too....

Paul... you might have a problem with wire wheel disks, I dont think there isnt anywhere for wheel studs... Like you found out on the mg bbs the PCD on the wire wheel ones was 80(something)mm and there arnt holes for studs...

Post by **Matt** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:57 pm

And having said that, I dont think that there is any fundamental difference between spridget and the later mini disks (the 8.4" variety) except prehaps a difference in the spacing between the hub and disk itself (ala difference in spridget disks....) prehaps it worth looking at them too?

Post by **IslipMinor** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:06 pm

The later Mini disks are the same o/d as the Metro (213mm) and virtually identical to the Midget. That is all that is the same! The bore and overall height are very different and require a lot of machining.

The centres on the Mini/Metro 8.4" calipers are the same (3.5") and different to the Midget (3.25").

Neither are a 'simple' alternative to the Midget.

Post by **Matt** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:43 am

Ahh ok... i didnt realise the centres were different!

Post by **paulhumphries** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 11:01 am

Matt wrote: Paul... you might have a problem with wire wheel disks, I dont think there isnt anywhere for wheel studs... Like you found out on the mg bbs the PCD on the wire wheel ones was 80(something)mm and there arnt holes for studs...

Do you mean wheel studs ?
I'd be using a steel wheel hub but bolting a wire wheel disc to the back of it.
The PCD I was refering to wasn't that of the wheel but rather that of the disc to hub mounting pattern.
I need to check later whether there is enough clearance between hub and disc with Midget caliper if the hight is reduced the 20mm though.

Paul Humphries.

Post by **Matt** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:20 pm

I did mean wheel studs... but i forgot how the hub/disk assemby went together

Post by **bmcecosse** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:02 pm

Fiesta caliper mounts are 'almost' the same as Mini - near enough that just a touch with a round file is needed. 90 mm I believe.

Post by **Matt** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 4:26 pm

Well... when you drill the threads out of the holes on the mini hubs it all lines up ;)

Post by **bmcecosse** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:09 pm

Indeed it does.

Post by **paulhumphries** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:25 am

I've just measured up the steel wheeled Midget disc against a technical drawing for a wire wheeled item.
The acutal mountings are identical both in bolt PCD and centre locating hole to boss on hub.
I then tried a Midget caliper and even with the steel wheel disc there is only, approx, 5mm of clearance between it and the rear face of the hub.
That means although the wire wheel disc would allow enough clearance between rear of disc and upright for the caliper mounting bracket (instead of the "J" type behind the upright) there is insufficent room to fit the caliper.
To say I'm dissapointed is an understatement

I wonder if Fiesta caliper might fit though ?

Paul Humphries

Post by **IslipMinor** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:37 pm

Paul,

What is your concern with the 'J' bracket? The design for both the Metro and Midget caliper versions are in the other Midget thread if you want to get one or other made.

Post by **paulhumphries** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:37 pm

IslipMinor wrote:Paul,

What is your concern with the 'J' bracket? The design for both the Metro and Midget caliper versions are in the other Midget thread if you want to get one or other made.

Absolutley nothing wrong with the "J" brackets.
It's just, for me, I find them asesthetically unappealing and prefer the type as discussed on the other threads for Polo calipers.
If I've got to buy new discs anyway & wire are same price as steel wheeled, plus the "Polo" type brackets are easier for me to make (than "J"), then you can understand why I needed to explore this route.

I should also add that i've also got a pair of new Nissan Micra K10 discs that seem to fit the same as the Polo type so haven't stopped thinking yet.

Paul Humphries.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:40 pm

This just gets more and more interesting. The pool of information being gathered here is fantastic!!