Beyond resonable economic repair.... or not....

Post by **TeHoro** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:12 pm

Hi Paul

As others have said, the rust holes are not in the chassis leg- that is much more towards the centre of the car, inside the torsion bar. Instead it is the lower outer floor edge that is rusty. Although this is a double skinned area it is probably easier to repair (depending on how the sills look) that the chassis leg.

See the pic from under my Traveller below. Although the floors and sills are good on this car, one front half chassis leg needed replacing a few years ago.

The part that is labelled floor is still underneath part of the inner sill structure.

Post by **bigginger** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:15 pm

I don't know saloons at all, but surely that isn't the sill? Isn't it above that and vertical?

Post by **Packedup** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:33 pm

flying wrote:most things are fixable...

Such as your sig? ;)

It's a bit on the wide side!

Post by **rayofleamington** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:16 pm

I don't know saloons at all, but surely that isn't the sill? Isn't it above that and vertical?

the picture shows a sill.

The inner part was originally part of the floor pressing (hence labelled as 'floor') but is often reffered to as the inner sill, and on maybe 95% of minors it is no longer made from the edge of the floor pressing (and on some it may be made of lots of cover plates and rot and filler and underseal).

On the outer edge of the sill is the sill finisher (pointless rust trap designed to follow the bottom of the door edge)

The upright part inside the sill is the 'boxing plate' which attaches the inner step and the sill together. On many 'proffessional and DIY resorations, the boxing plate is not repaired properly, as it can't be inspected in the MOT - however this is where most of the strength of the sill comes from.

The bolted/screwed on piece that hides the bits under the door is commonly called called the 'kick plate'

[However on e-bay you will normally find kick plates being called 'sills' because it is a piece of metal that fits to the car somewhere under the door]

Post by **bigginger** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 6:28 pm

Aha - they're different on the LCVs, as you know

Post by **jonathon** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 6:44 pm

The inner sill , is also known as the floor edge panel, and comes in two parts on the saloons and traveller, I'm sure Andrew knows this comes as one on the van and pickup's.
I'd rather say 'some' rather than 'many' proffesional's do not repair the boxing plate properly. As an MOT repair to this panel i.e starting from the back edge of the hinge pillar to the front edge of the B post, will satisfy the MOT requirements. To correctly repair this section as a specialist rebuilder should, the cost and amount of work involved will be much higher than the MOT version, it will probably also open up a whole new can of worms otherwise unseen.

Post by **bigginger** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 6:47 pm

Oh yes, it does...

Post by **flying** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:02 pm

PaulP wrote: Thanks for help and advice to all.... oh, and Flying... I've seen your handy work on your Minor... so if you have any spare time...

i'd love to help but it's not going to be possible,well to busy,good luck on getting it repaired....dosnt look to bad but has people say take the kick panel and have a look to see if its gone any further...when i looked at mine it had taken the floor and the sill panel ....be worth while getting the whole panel replaced rather than a quick job just for a mot

Post by **rayofleamington** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:25 pm

I'd rather say 'some' rather than 'many' proffesional's do not repair the boxing plate properly

I'd rather not say either as I've no idea if there are 'very few', 'some' or 'many' proffessionals doing half a job.

I was reffering to the result of many restoration projects, which themselves are not exclusive either to DIY or to professional 'bodge jobs'.
Anyway - my point was mainly that the boxing plate is very important to make the sill as strong as it is meant to be, however to pass an MOT it is often overlooked.

Post by **jonathon** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:45 pm

I understand what you were infering

but you did say'many proffessional and DIY..... Just thought it might be a tad misleading for those who may require the services of 'proffessionals/specialists.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:59 pm

but you did say'many proffessional and DIY..... Just thought it might be a tad misleading for those who may require the services of 'proffessionals/specialists.

ok!
next time I mention imperfect repairs I will try and bias against DIYers in case people think I'm reffering to the shoddy repairs I 'may or may not have' seen from (non-Midlands-based) specialists. ;-)

Post by **nebogipfel** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:26 pm

Just a quick comment. It is also worth mentioning that sometimes the customer only wants (and wants to pay for) a patch repair.

Now I know there is a valid debate about the value of such repairs to the structural integrity of a vehicle, but that is a topic perhaps for another day

My new Traveller has had quite a bit of repair to the sills, much of it covering rusted areas but adequate to obtain an MOT. But, if that was what the previous owner asked for, and more importantly was prepared to pay for ......

There is a world of difference between restoration (a much over-used word in my opinion) and general workaday repairs.

Post by **james_Mills** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 4:41 pm

*is very upset*
Car returned from MOT test today, and garage say that it is beyond economic repair. apparetly the chasis is far too gone with welding on top welding. I'll need a new chasis! I have the money to repair, but does anyone know this in figures apart from the usual "it'll cost ya" reply?

Morgot (my dearest Moggy) might be dying!

Post by **chickenjohn** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 5:57 pm

By "chassis" did they mean the actual chassis members or as a general term for the structural parts of the car, or do you have a commercial vehicle? (Van/Pickup)

Can you get some pics up here of the offending areas?

Post by **nebogipfel** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 6:55 pm

james_Mills wrote:*is very upset*
Car returned from MOT test today, and garage say that it is beyond economic repair. apparetly the chasis is far too gone with welding on top welding. I'll need a new chasis! I have the money to repair, but does anyone know this in figures apart from the usual "it'll cost ya" reply?

Morgot (my dearest Moggy) might be dying!

James, you do need to seek advice from someone who understands old cars and preferably Minors.

I find nowadays that MOT testers are all too ready to condemn cars due to rust because welding run of the mill modern cars is pretty much a thing of the past due in part to the short lifespan of modern cars and the free availability of credit to buy a replacement.

As I say the car needs to properly assessed before you give up. As chickenjohn says some pictures of the problem areas would be helpful

Post by **chickenjohn** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:00 am

Yes as John says, a Moggie is a durable car not a disposable modern, you can bring almost any Minor back. Yours might only need a few repairs. Please don't throw it away as its not disposable modern car.

If the chap (MOT mechanic) was talking about "chassis" on a monocoque car like the Minor he probably doesn;t know what he's talking about.

Ask your local branch for a classic friendly MOT garage.

Post by **pskipper** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:41 am

*is very upset*
Car returned from MOT test today, and garage say that it is beyond economic repair. apparetly the chasis is far too gone with welding on top welding. I'll need a new chasis! I have the money to repair, but does anyone know this in figures apart from the usual "it'll cost ya" reply?

Morgot (my dearest Moggy) might be dying!

I don't know if they still do it but quite a few garages were advertising a complete underside (chassis) replacement for £1000 a while back.

Post by **Rob_Jennings** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:01 pm

Get the car to an expert for proper advice.

Mine failed MOT 3 weeks ago on a few small areas of rust, but I have invested a bit more money than it needed to ensure it has a long term future.

I would never ask for patches, repair panels are easily available and inexpensive, the labour to put them in may cost more but the benefit of a proper repair is huge. If yours has been patched many times then it would be prudent to replace those sections, but you may not need to do all of it at once.

A good garage will help you plan long term. You might find that the right investment now gets you an MOT and you can address the other point over a period of time and treat it as a rolling restoration.

I know many people run minors on shoe string budgets, and if you can't weld they can seem expensive in some repairs. A modern car is a depreciating asset, a well kept minor should hold its value, and money spent well may even increase its value over the years.