Alternative Alternator

[Pyoor_Kate]

I got a bit sick of the Lucas LRA alternators (or more precicely the Valeo rebuilt ones) after getting through 4 in 4 years I decided it was time to take a visit to my local scrappy and see what they had that might fit. After working my way through a couple of duff ones I found that the Lucas A602 (apparently fitted to later minis) fits, has a higher output - and doesn't seem to disintegrate or suffer from failing control packs (quite as much).

However, you do need to move the pully outwards a bit - it doesn't *quite* align right as standard, but yeah, it looks rather more modern I'm afraid (still alternators aren't really for purists, unless they own very late mogs) - so yeah. Thought you'all might like to know.

Apparently there's a Delco unit which you can get *new* which fits with minimal modification, at some point I may look into that. That has a much higher output - and isn't a remanufactured one... so might last a bit longer.

[nebogipfel]

Yes, but the best alternative alternator is a dynamo


To be serious - something Japanese would be reliable

[Kevin]

Thats the problem with lots of rebuilt items, they are built to a minimum price rather than a quality repair price.

[alex_holden]

Are the alternators the minor specialists sell as part of alternator conversion kits all the rebuilt Lucas LRA type that Kate has had many problems with?

I may have to go rooting around a scrapyard to see what I can find fitted to the Japanese cars... One thing I've noticed is that more and more modern cars use flat grooved fanbelts rather than the traditional Vee type, so if I went for one of those I'd have to sort out a different pulley as well as possibly making a new bracket to attach it. Some of them also have weird electrical connectors rather than standard spade terminals, though I suppose the advantage of getting one from a scrapyard is you can grab the cable too.

[chrisd87]

you can grab the cable too.

Don't be tempted to try and use terminal blocks to join the main output wire from the alternator to the charging circuit. I did when I installed mine and the (20A) terminal block had so much resistance that the battery wasn't being charged properly.
Once fixed my Lucas LRA has been fine so far...

[alex_holden]

Crimp butt splice connectors are better for permanently connecting two wires together, preferably the type that has a heat-shrink sleeve. Or splice, solder, and heat shrink over the top. Avoid ordinary insulation tape at all costs! The glue usually goes off after a while and it comes unravelled. On the other hand, self amalgamating tape is excellent for bundling wires together.

BTW the type of alternator that has a separate sense terminal will be less likely to suffer this problem providing you don't cheat and join it to the charge wire at the alternator (which is what the alternators that don't have a sense wire do). The reason is that if the alternator is supplying current (because the battery is low and your lights, heated rear windscreen, etc. are on) there will inevitably be some kind of voltage drop across the charge wire. The more resistance in that wire the greater the voltage drop. If you've got a poor quality connection in there, small gauge wire (originally designed for the standard dynamo output), and the system wants to take tens of amps of current from the alternator, you could easily wind up with a couple of volts or more drop across the charge wire. If the regulator's sense terminal is on the alternator side of that wire, it will limit the alternator output to 13.8V or so (maybe a bit more) at the alternator end, and the voltage at the opposite end will be perhaps a couple of volts lower - which could easily be less than the battery's voltage, and certainly less than you need to charge it at a decent rate. Connecting the sense terminal to the far end via a wire that doesn't carry any significant current allows the regulator to put out a voltage high enough that the voltage at the far end of the charge wire will still be high enough to charge the battery, even after the voltage drop. Ideally the far end of the sense wire should be connected as close to the battery terminal as possible, as it's the battery charging voltage that matters.

[millerman]

It would be very useful if you can come up with some alternative alternators, the Lucas ones are getting a bit long in the tooth altho there are one or two places in Newport that recondition them.

[dp]

A word of caution with the self amalgamating tape. If two joins are next to each other and there is any pressure on them (ideally there shouldn't be anyway but under a carpet for example) the wires inside will eventually end up touching or shorting. The self-amalgamating stuff acts like a very thick fluid and very slowly moves out of the way if two joins are pushed together. I had a whole bundle of wires do this. I didn't stagger the joins and the whole lot goo'd together with some wires shorting in the centre.

[Packedup]

Right, the Lucas alternators as found on Minis (and so Minors with conversions) also fit straight onto most if not all Triumphs (certainly OHV 4 and 6 cylinder ones).

And http://www.canleyclassics.com/newproduc ... alternator fits Triumphs. So, that would also, with maybe a bit of fettling on the mounts, fit a Minor. All that's needed is to work out which modern blob they're fitted to as standard, and do a pulley swap!

Though I imagine if asked nicely Canley Classics might flog the required pulley/ shims/ fitting bits needed (so long as the Minor takes teh same as the Triumphs)

[alex_holden]

Take a look at this page: http://www.telusplanet.net/~chichm/padd ... _paddy.htm

It's about a Mini restoration, but of interest to this thread he fitted a "Nippon Denso 55 amp alternator" using a home-made bracket and pulley. It looks very similar to the Canley Classics one but with a back hinge mounting as well as a front one.

That's an interesting definition of "high output" Canley Classics have.

[aupickup]

just buy the whole conversion from esm £60.00, and all parts needed to fit

[alex_holden]

just buy the whole conversion from esm £60.00, and all parts needed to fit

Which brings us full circle to my original question: "Are the alternators the minor specialists sell as part of alternator conversion kits all the rebuilt Lucas LRA type that Kate has had many problems with?"

[Packedup]

That's an interesting definition of "high output" Canley Classics have.

Didn't notice that - Maybe a typo (as I think even my lowly 213 has a larger one!)?

But then, compared to the 22A or so standard ones 40A really is high power anyway! ;)

I'm sure the alternators off the Montego/ Maestro turbo diesel both fit and have an imperial shedload of ampage, but I suppose they'll suffer the dodgy Lucas rebuild quality if you want anything more than scrapyard condition

[Pyoor_Kate]

Alex - As far as I'm aware, yes. Everyone seems to flog the Lucas LRA; although there are a variety of companies refurbishing them. The one I've got on is, like I mention above, not actually an LRA - but the first one I got from the store was; refurbished by CJM(?) Rotating Autoelectrics.

Traditionally I've been given Valeos by the mog places, and those are without doubt the ones I've had the most hastle from. The most frustrating was the original Lucas one which came with my engine; that was fine electrically, but its bearings had failed...

The A602 is also a recon; but then so was the one from the scrappy; and that failed 'cos it's bearings went - not because the electronics failed - which seemed to be what happened to all the Valeo brand recons I got.

[honda90]

My Traveller has the following alternator fitted but I do not have a clue what make it is, has been reliable though, also has the standard spade connectors.

[d_harris]

What year is your trav? Some of the later ones had them as standard

[chrisd87]

That looks quite like the ones fitted to the police panda cars. Is your trav still positive earth, honda90? I think the alternator-equipped panda cars were.

[honda90]

No negative earth, when last on the road some 20 years ago it had a Lucas alternator fitted off an mini. But when restored 2002 I couldn't find the alternator previously fitted, so restorer fitted a secondhand one he had in his parts store. It seems to have an easy replacement brush unit fitted by about 3 screws but as I've said before I haven't a clue on its make. Also as you can see from the pictures it has a mounting for the coil, though I do believe the Lucas one I had previously may have had this, but 20 years is a long time ago to remember!! Car originally had a dynamo when I first got it in 1978.

[Pyoor_Kate]

John, that's a (or looks like a) Lucas A602 - or a reconditioned one. Same as I fitted to mine

[Matt]

That looks like the A127 Alternator they come with up to 70A output apparently... they are fitted to fords the square escorts and fiestas and various rovers of the 90s...