Engine swap

Post by **dnac** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 1:07 pm

Not sure what you guys think to engine swaps but here goes, a few years ago I had a pickup with a fiat twin cam, had to sell that when our first baby came a long, and built a series 2 landy with a Perkins Prime (2ltr turbo diesel as fitted to maestro / montegos) Well, I am now feed up with the landy and want to get another moggy (I never relly stopped loving em) but was interested in knowing if anyone had attempted putting the prima in one, and what people thought of it, remember in the montego the engine made the car run at just over 100 mph, Imagin the possibilities in a mog!!!

What do you reckon??

Post by **Peetee** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 1:15 pm

I don't know the engine myself but my first thought with a 2 litre diesel is weight. It is probably a heavy thing and could upset the handling as a lot of weight will be forward of the moggies wheels.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 2:24 pm

Quite a few Minors were modified to have the B series engine (like an 1800 big brother of the A series)
Many of these ended up written off when driven in anger as the extra weight needs to be in the correct place. I saw a photo once of an 1800 B series minor with its rear axle in the air whilst braking on the motorway at high speed! I guess one of his mates took the photo so it was probably done to show off but if you can do that, do you want to drive the car at high speed?? (unless you are not fond of life)

V8's tend to be fitted quite far back for better weight distribution, so it must be do-able, but might be best to go for a custom tubular chassis etc.. like they use on the V8's.

Post by **dnac** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 2:24 pm

It weights a little less than a Fiat twin cam, and they are not too bad. The head is all Ally you see. and the block is based on the O series.

Post by **Cam** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 2:34 pm

Then it is probably down to length. If it will fit lengthways between the bulkhead and radiator.

How did it fit in the Landy? It would have to be fitted north-south presumably, and if so, what gearbox arrangement did you use. The reason I ask is that the Monty is transverse FWD and the Landy is (i think) north-south 4WD.

Post by **Kevin** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 2:37 pm

(2ltr turbo diesel as fitted to maestro / montegos)

How did you overcome the Transverse drive train issues when putting it in your Landy
You seaked in while I was still typing Cam but the same thoughts.

Post by **dnac** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 8:44 am

The engine was fitted transverse in the montego's meastro, but in the sherpa its fitted North south, I got a conversion plate, made my own mounts and bolted it in.

Post by **Innovator** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 11:22 am

The problem with any engine in the Minor is length. The reason the Fiat engine was / is so popular is that it is a very short engine.

So the starting point with any engine is the tape measure. Remember to consider room for the radiator and fan.

When the B Series was fitted a radiator with a gap in tyhe middle was required.

John

Post by **Robins** » Sat Oct 11, 2003 6:16 pm

Fantastic idea! well I definatley think it is anyway. The 2ltr turbo diesel giving the montego 100mph and somewere around 50-60 mpg and I suppose it is sort of a BMC engine possibley on the family tree somewere which makes it sort of exceptible for the genuine side of things in a moggie don't you think? well it dosen't matter anyway.
I spent most of the day in the scrapyards with me tape measure. I think it could be do'able. The engine it's self will fit under the bonnet without using an angle grinder but it is going to be tight and a slim rad will probably be needed. The gearbox from the sherpa is apparently the same as used in the TR7's and Range Rovers but not to sure on that. The gearbox is the biggest problem I think being quite tall, the steering rack is one problem, and it will also mean the moggie needs a hydrolic clutch conversion. I've now got the task of doing some closer measuring on the moggie. I will let you all now my answer as soon as I have it.

Post by **alab** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 1:03 pm

Interesting, I would like to know how you get on, have you seen this site?
http://www.geocities.com/moggydieseluk/

Al

Post by **Robins** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 11:21 am

Well I've done my homework now and unfortunatley it's not possible. No one could be more gutted than me as I was looking forward to this conversion, even found a complete unit for sale in ready to drop in condition.
After many hours of doing my sums and making diagrams I found it to be possible to fit this diesel set up in the moggie obviously with a lot of hard work. Then I relised the alternator is down very low on one side at the front and the oil take off and canister is on the otherside which makes it to wide to go between the chassis, why didn't I measure the width first

. I suppose if you wanted to move the alternator and get a conversion made for the oil take off then it might be possible but will be a VERY tight squeze and a bit of cutting and altering of the chassis will probably be needed. As I don't want to do any cutting or modifying to the body or chassis then its not a conversion for me. Oh well back to the new 1098 idea again.

Post by **dnac** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 12:20 pm

Hang on a minute, before you throw the towel in, I have solutions to both problems.

On the alternator front, a company called Dudleigh engineering (who specialise in Prima into Landrover conversions) sell an alternator mount to mount it at the top of the engine up towards the head on the oil canister side.

As for the oil, The marine verion of the engine had the filter mounted upwards, if you go to a Perkins Distributor you could buy the other pump type, or some pumps had a bolt on canister mount, if the engine you looked at is like that you only need purchase the upside down canister mount from the marine engine.

The thing I could not work out is what to do about the extra weight.

Post by **Robins** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 6:39 pm

Nice one dnac, now that has put a smile on my face

.
Well if that gives me enough clearence then things could be back on again, hope that bloke hasn't sold his setup.

By the extra weight, what did you mean? how much does it weigh as a unit compared to the A-series setup?
I was planning to put it as close to the bulkhead as possible and as low to the ground as the speed humps will allow. And I suppose some coil over shocks would stop the nose sinking on heavey breaking.
I think thats my Saturday booked for the scrapyard again, excellent.

Post by **Cam** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 8:53 pm

coil over shocks would stop the nose sinking on heavey breaking

Or uprated torsion bars. Much cheaper.

Post by **Robins** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 7:19 pm

Thank you Cam, I hadn't thought of those. Would I be right in think they would be found on the 1.7 Itals? do they go straight on a moggie?

Post by **Cam** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 9:42 pm

I don't know. I bought mine as uprated torsion bars specifically for a Minor. I know SOME Marina ones can be adapted to fit (different adjuster) but I don't know if they are all the same throughout the model range. If I had to guess then I would say that they probably were.

Post by **Innovator** » Sat Nov 08, 2003 7:19 pm

I think Marina bars are 30% uprated over the Minor.

The ones I would like to know about are the torsion bars on the 575 / 10cwt Marina pickup and vans. These were the ones with the 4.5" PCD hubs and B Series axle. The bars should be heavier as the rest of the vehicle is.

John

PS I ran a suspension setup about 2.5 times as stiff at the front (with coil overs) and I thought it was great for every day use.

John

Post by **grant69** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:24 am

Why diesel, an equivelant petrol engine will give you 2x the HP for half the weight and they are much better for the environment. If you want fast, fit a supercharge 4AGZE 1600 engine out of a Toyota MR2. With 180hp it should push your morrie along at about 130mph and 0-60mph in about 6sec

Post by **Robins** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 6:49 pm

I think I might go for coil overs then, thanks John. Did you use spax? and I don't suppose you know the part number and where you got them from?

Grant 69, I want the diesel for econamy but also the extra power is a bonus. the 2ltr turbo diesel in question propelled the montego somewhere around 100mph and can do 60mpg. So with the moggie being lighter than montego, I'm sure you can see the point. A diesel can be clean if looked after properly and kept in good condition. That redex aditive is good stuff and keeps the injectors clean, which means no smoke & pollution.

Post by **Cam** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 9:07 pm

Nice picture, Robins!!! The bodywork looks fantastic and the traveller does not look too bad either!

Sorry..........could not resist!