wheel stud

[ian-s]

When I first started racing minis there were a lot of problems with wheels cracking and pulling over the nuts and BMC recommended that wheel nuts only be tightened to 35ft/ lb. I have yet to meet a garage where they only do the nuts up to that sort of torque ,in fact I always use a 6ft bar to loosen the wheel nuts after its been to the garage and then toque them up myself so at leastI can change a wheel should I need to. So I can quite easiy believe that any car that has been into a garage has overstressed wheel studs, its just unfortunate that BMC used such small studs.

[bmcecosse]

Ahh -your giving your age away there Ian with the cracking Mini wheels. I too have had these early wheels breaking up - the first one was on my trailer with Mini on board (towing with Minor) - so we put that down to the excessive weight on the wheel - however later that day another wheel tore off the front of the Mini during a practice run. Fortunately it was autocross (large grassy field) and so no damage was done. It was just after that there was general announcement from BMC about these wheels - and so we had to scamper round the scrapyards looking for the thicker ones. But in all that carry on - none of the studs snapped - not even on the trailer which had Mini rear hubs.

[mixerman]

Dont panic everyone i used a 4 way wheel brace and i think i went over the top tightninit up i have checked the stud and there is no rust anywhere i had just watched strongest man on tele just before and i think i got carried away bye the way what is the torque on the nuts?

[Squiggle]

I've had wheel nuts strip, wheel centres crack, front hub crack and shatter (a story of its own!) but never had a stud snap. Years ago when I worked in a tyre centre whenever a Mini, Minor, Triumph or any vehicle with tiny studs came in it was time to put away the impact wrench, even then it was necessary to be careful with a cross wrench not to apply excessive stress to the stud. It was always good to be able prove to the customer that they could get the nuts off with their own wheel brace.

Oh heck stuff for nightmares! Go on, tell us that story!

My car has wheel BOLTS [yes bolts not nuts - 1952 Series MM 918cc sidevalve] that are getting rather worn and look like they are about to make their way through the holes in the wheels. Thankfully I find they are tapered and the holes sunk, so things are not quite as desperate as it seems.

My messages to our tec' expert Rob Thomasson are bouncing!

So, any ideas please?

I was kindly given another wheel but cannot afford to replace them all.
Would I be able to get them, other than 'worn' nowadays anyway?

So ideas that have surfaced are:

1. Use washers - told not to by folk on messageboard!

2. Some kind of 'cups' to compensate for the wear? Don't know any more at this stage.

3. Acquire some bolts with a slightly larger diameter head than 15mm [ I think that's the size ].

Please could you advise as I'd like to go to the AGM and it's quite a way to travel with suspect wheel nuts!

While on the subject. Do you know the torque value for tightening these bolts please?

And tyre pressures. I have radials and they look soft most of the time.
? best tyre pressure for my car unloaded [with one person most of the time].

Many thanks.

[minor_hickup]

Squiggle could you not use slightly larger wheel bolts, say from a more modern car and have the hub retapped and hole on the wheels re-drilled and countersunk for the nuts being used?

[alex_holden]

Is the problem that the holes in the wheels have got bigger?

[Squiggle]

Squiggle could you not use slightly larger wheel bolts, say from a more modern car and have the hub retapped and hole on the wheels re-drilled and countersunk for the nuts being used?

Thanks for reply.

But, forgive my ignorance but, how would I go about all of that?
Might it be expensive?

[Squiggle]

Is the problem that the holes in the wheels have got bigger?

Thanks to you too!

I think it's a bit of both. Holes slightly larger and bolts worn. One worn bolt kindly stuck itself securely [at a slight angle] in the right size socket .... growl

Trying to find the cheapest safe way to resolve problem.

[bmcecosse]

You could certainly have new bolts made up with larger head - or modify larger bolts from a modern car eg Vauxhall. This would involve quite a bit of expense - then a wheel flying off on the Motorway will not be cheap either. If they are 3/8" diameter (as the later studs are) then no more than 40 ft lbs should be applied.
I run my radials at 30 psi all round - it works for me - some others tend to use slightly less. Certainly the old 24 psi for cross plies is far too low.

[Squiggle]

You could certainly have new bolts made up with larger head - or modify larger bolts from a modern car eg Vauxhall. This would involve quite a bit of expense - then a wheel flying off on the Motorway will not be cheap either. If they are 3/8" diameter (as the later studs are) then no more than 40 ft lbs should be applied.
I run my radials at 30 psi all round - it works for me - some others tend to use slightly less. Certainly the old 24 psi for cross plies is far too low.

Where do I find companies that would modify bolts please?

Thanks for the other info. Yes, 24psi is too low and squiggy.

[alex_holden]

I think it's a bit of both. Holes slightly larger and bolts worn.

I wouldn't have thought the kind of wear you would get on the bolt would reduce the head diameter by enough to matter. I wonder if it's possible the wheels you have are a later type than the hubs and were designed to be used with larger bolts/nuts.

modify larger bolts from a modern car eg Vauxhall.

If going this route I would prefer to leave the new bolts alone and drill/tap out the hubs if there's enough metal on the hubs to do so without badly weakening them. Increasing the head size of a bolt without increasing the thread size too is a recipe for overtightening.

[Squiggle]

I think it's a bit of both. Holes slightly larger and bolts worn.

I wouldn't have thought the kind of wear you would get on the bolt would reduce the head diameter by enough to matter. I wonder if it's possible the wheels you have are a later type than the hubs and were designed to be used with larger bolts/nuts.

modify larger bolts from a modern car eg Vauxhall.

If going this route I would prefer to leave the new bolts alone and drill/tap out the hubs if there's enough metal on the hubs to do so without badly weakening them. Increasing the head size of a bolt without increasing the thread size too is a recipe for overtightening.

Very interesting point re wheels being later type than hubs. I've found some other parts that 'don't belong'. Not surprising eh with the age of the beast.

And your latter point re overtightening. Makes sense.

Wondering how to check whether the hubs and wheels do 'match'.

Has anyone any ideas of an engineering company who would drill/tap out the hubs if I decide to go that particular route please?

[d_harris]

Chrissy,

Its just an idea, it might not even work - i'm sure others will be able to comment

I know nothing about the early cars, but would a swap to later hubs and wheels be viable (with studs and nuts, rather than bolts)??

Just an idea.....

[Squiggle]

Chrissy,

Its just an idea, it might not even work - i'm sure others will be able to comment

I know nothing about the early cars, but would a swap to later hubs and wheels be viable (with studs and nuts, rather than bolts)??

Just an idea.....

Hmmm thanks but going away from original, but maybe I'll have to.

Will investigate further and watch for replies.

[bmcecosse]

By 'modify' - I really meant 'adapt' - so yes it would involve drilling the hibs out and tapping to the new larger thread - and then possibly shortening the bolts - although you may still need to change the taper angle to suit your wheels. Where ? Perhaps a garage with a lathe (if they still survive - ALL garages used to have lathes !) - or an 'Agricultural Engineering' workshop - or a friend of a friend who has a lathe or works in a factory with lathes and machines !! To be honest - i would just put snug fitting washers behind the nuts and crank them up till they took on a nice bevelled form and held the wheel firmly. Need to just check the wheel is dead central before final tightening.

[alex_holden]

I have a couple of lathes and would be willing to turn a new taper on the bolts if they needed it, except the legal issues of doing work like this worry me a little. Could I be sued if a wheel subsequently broke off and caused an accident? The situation in the US is getting crazy - people being dragged into court for the most tenuous of reasons, and it's heading that way here too. I'm sure garages must have some kind of professional indemnity insurance to cover that possibility, but I'm just an enthusiastic amateur.

[Welung666]

The situation in the US is getting crazy - people being dragged into court for the most tenuous of reasons

Have a look at the 'Stella Awards'! Those are the annual US law suit awards, highly entertaining to read but on the other hand scary, as you said, these kind of law suits are heading over here to!

[les]

i would just put snug fitting washers behind the nuts and crank them up till they took on a nice bevelled form and held the wheel firmly.

As long as I'm not behind you!!
I would try to source the standard parts if at all possible.

[bigginger]

There was a long thread on the Australian site about using washers. From memory, it wasn't a good idea, but I could be wrong. Scott'll probably tell us

[Onne]

It involves quite a lot of work and expense to get it all converted.
Kingpins, hubs, trunnions, axle, diff and rear brakes all need to be done.

Mike Perry will know this all.