Gearbox/clutch

Post by **Dizzi141** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 9:06 pm

HI guys, I was reading another post which said that if the gearbox started to jump out of gear it was on its way out. SOmeone please tell me that mine jumping out of first doesn't mean I need a new one...my dad mentioned an adjuster thingy that may or may not be on it. Is there one that will adjust it?
Secondly...someone mentioned it would cost about £200 for a clutch replacement, I think. Have I done the blonde thing and got this wrong? I took my car in to the garage and he quoted me about £100 for taking the engie out and relacing the oil seal between the engine and gearbox and doing the clutch at the same time. Is that cheap or is he talking about doing something else? Sorry, Im being really unspecific about the post I read, I will go see if I can find it and then expand.

Post by **Dizzi141** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 9:11 pm

Have had a look for the post and can't find it, maybe I imagined it?

Post by **rayofleamington** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 10:45 pm

Hi,
No you didn't imagine it, though it could be in one of the technical sections where gearbox queries should be... ;-)
Does the gearbox have any other faults - eg. is it very noisy in 1st/reverse ?
Jumping out of gear is often a sign of a gearbox on its last legs, however if it just happens if first gear, then you can avoid it by using second instead of first! Be a bit careful with it as it can be dangerous - if you pull out of a junction and loose drive, it can be a bit hairy...

If you are on a tight budget, then a gearbox change is something to avoid if possible.

£100 is a very good price for a garage to take the engine out fix something and put it back in. Unbolting the clutch when the engine is out and fitting a new one is less than 15 minutes if they know what they are doing.

BE A BIT WARY OF THE 'replace the seal' comment!!
The problem is that the gearbox has a scroll seal, which is basically like a screw thread machined into the metal (and I think the engine does to). Therefore I'm not sure there is much they can can fix, without doing a much bigger job, which costs more.

If the gearbox scroll seal is gone, you can get the front plate off and have it modified to take a lip seal. I did this a few months ago and it cost me £30 from Bull Motif.
For the engine, if it is also the scroll seal it is probably a very big job (engine strip down).

The 'adjuster thingy' might be reffering to the clutch adjustment - it shouldn't affect gearbox to jump out of gear.

And no jokes about 'in crowds'

lol

Post by **Chris Morley** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 11:27 pm

HI guys, I was reading another post which said that if the gearbox started to jump out of gear it was on its way out

That one was one of my posts. The gear stick vibrates and causes the 1st and/or reverse gear to jump. Sadly it may well be that you will need to have a new (reconditioned) gearbox before too long. As Ray says, there are ways to prolong the inevitable by being careful. I got perhaps 1000 more miles out of mine by starting in first but changing to 2nd at about 5mph - you can also firmly hold the end of the gearknob when reversing, but at this point it's on it's last legs.

£100 to change the clutch is very cheap! Perhaps that price doesn't include parts?

However there's not much point fitting a new clutch onto a knackered gearbox - I got a new clutch fitted when I replaced the gearbox. A lot of money in one go, but it won't need doing again for many years.

Post by **Kevin** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 1:29 am

£100 to change the clutch is very cheap! Perhaps that price doesn't include parts?

Well as the clutch parts are around £70 that would be a bargain price.
Ray is correct about both the seals being of the scroll type, some of the specialists (Bath) do updated replacements but the gearbox one is around £30 and the engine one around £50.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 12:41 pm

type, some of the specialists (Bath) do updated replacements but the gearbox one is around £30 and the engine one around £50.

Hi Dizzi - Just a note, this would be for the replacement (or exchange) modified parts. To do the work on the engine is going to have a large labour charge on top.

Garges that do a lot of clutch changes frequently offer to replace the seals at the same time. The unscrupulous ones will tell you that the seal is on its way out, so you feel you have no choice, but you'll probably never know if they changed the seal or not - It's a good way for them to make free money.

tc- 5 hours to do a gearbox change is good for DIY!! I've only ever done it quicker than that once, but had left most of the screws/bolts out as it was just for a quick in/out to test drive the box.

Taking the engine out is probably a much quicker way to do the clutch, if it is a garage with commercial lifting equipement etc..

Post by **Kevin** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 2:11 pm

TC did you take the gearbox out through the inside of the car as I have been told this is possible, how did you manage without the axle stands.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 5:38 pm

so yes it could be withdrawn from the inside but be prepared to take both seats out instead of one as it will be easier.

I have done it through the inside on nearly every occasion, and yes having both seats out saves a lot of cursing. It's quite an easy job once you've removed the gearbox floor (that can be a pain the first time)
One many of my cars the captive nut/s had loosened under the master cylinder, making it impossible to remove the gearbox crossmember.
The only remaining option is then to take it out inside. (or to remove the master cylinder)
I've done the engine jacking on my own too but it slows the whole process down. The last time I was really struggling to rotate the gearbox past the steering rack, until I realised I'd left the engine top steady on, and the engine wasn't fully dropped down. Doh!

I've never had taken a minor engine out to do the clutch, but that's because I can lift a gearbox on my own, but I can't shift an engine on my own (I've had a desk job for too long). Still - theres no way I can justify a nice hydraulic engine lift, but I can dream...

Post by **Dizzi141** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 9:50 pm

Its the seal between the engine and gearbox leaking oil. Tje man at the garage said it would be possible to take out either the engine or the gearbox but the engine would be best. And because the oil that was leaking was going out through the clutch housing they would do that too. He sai dit would be about £100, no more labour for the clutch becasue the engine was alreay out for doing the seal.
Thanks again guys, I don't know how I would deal with all this without you

Post by **rayofleamington** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 10:55 pm

He was right that the engine or gearbox oil was leaking out throught the clutch bellhousing. The bit he got wrong was saying he was going to fix it for £100
You gotta watch these guys ;-)

Post by **Dizzi141** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 7:22 pm

Darn! There was me thinking I might be able to afford to get that sorted as well as the MOT this month. Oh well, what sort of price am I likely to be lookig at then? *covers ears* I don't really want to know do i?

Post by **Gareth** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 7:36 pm

At a guess, it'd be the £100 labour, plus £80-ish for the clutch, and maybe a twenty for the seal? That's £200, then there could be VAT and the dreaded "sundries"...

Maybe £250? Scary how it can add up, really. Go and chat to him - be as nice as possible, and ask for a total breakdown and a "firm quote" to do the whole job, and list what you want doing. If possible, get it in writing, if you think he might be slippery...

Post by **rayofleamington** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 8:50 pm

and maybe a twenty for the seal?

Keep up Gareth ;-) We mentioned that they are scroll seals so can't just be 'changed'.

both the seals being of the scroll type

So £30 exchange for the gearbox front plate that is modified to have a lip seal (plus delivery..)
And a lot of money to convert the engine to have a lip seal, as it involves taking the engine apart.

Probably £180 plus the vat to do the clutch (and no seals fixed as the garage won't know where to get the modified gearbox front plate, and not be interested to rebuild an engine for someone who can't afford it)

If you can find a good gearbox, you could wait until you have that, then get the gearbox and clutch done at the same time. Otherwise you will end up paying 2 big garage bills instead of 1.
Depends how bad the slippy clutch is though...

And yes, get the quote in writing first. The last thing you want is for him to go to anexpensive parts place and end up charging you £120 for the clutch instead between £60 to £80. These things do happen and prices for parts vary a lot!!

Post by **Gareth** » Fri Oct 03, 2003 2:38 pm

D'oh!

Sorry, guys... must try harder! Hehehe

Post by **Kevin** » Fri Oct 03, 2003 3:37 pm

And a lot of money to convert the engine to have a lip seal, as it involves taking the engine apart.

Owen Burton does a kit for £48:00 but what is involved in fitting it, knowing Owen I assume its relatively simple.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Fri Oct 03, 2003 4:34 pm

I'm also unaware how it would be fitted, but as the crank has a big flange on the end to mount the flywheel, I am interested to know how they do it at all.
I expect the minumum is getting the engine backplate off, the sump off etc.. Then the seal will go somewhere/somehow araond the main bearing / bearing cap area.
Is Owen Burton still selling bits then? Maybe I had him confused with someone else?

Post by **Kevin** » Fri Oct 03, 2003 4:42 pm

Well the Minor Centre (Bath), Bull Motif and quite a few others still sell his parts, disc brake conversions etc so either he is or someone has the rights to make the bits, have a look at
http://www.morris-minor.co.uk/p751.htm