Pre welding panels together

[paulhumphries]

Yet another sleepless night worrying about what to do with my rotten convertible (not really ! ).
I'm 75+% decided that it's not worth restoring but haven't completly given up yet.
What ever welding is done I'd prefer to spot weld / MIG plug weld and have been thinking about the possibility of joining sections together, such as sill structure, before attaching to vehicle.
For this I'd definatley use my spot welder as it creates less distortion, is easier to use and is as the car would have originally been made.
Assuming the replacement panels are properly made I can see no problem with this and it would certainly change my view on mine cars potential.
I'd working on the idea of a jig with pre welded sections (sills, front chassis legs to inner wings and rear spring hangers to inner wings etc) being attached and then the remains of the body then being placed over the top. That way the mechanical components would all be in the correct alignment.
From other peoples experiences have they found the common panels (I'd probably be using LMC Hadrian items) fit without trimming / "persuading" ?

Paul Humphries.

[WPR678B]

In MY experience i would say that 99% of the panels i have fitted have needed some sort of adjustment to align correctly (and i have fitted a great many!!) . Personally i wouldn't recommend pre-assembling panels and the spot welder you probably have is nowhere near as powerful as the industrial one's they used to assemble them in the factory! I have a Sealey spotwelder and it is fine for doing things like rear valance's on Mini's, but i always seam weld the sills even if i have used the spot welder to give the "original" look. I think this would be twice as important with your soft top!

[paulhumphries]

In MY experience i would say that 99% of the panels i have fitted have needed some sort of adjustment to align correctly (and i have fitted a great many!!) . Personally i wouldn't recommend pre-assembling panels and the spot welder you probably have is nowhere near as powerful as the industrial one's they used to assemble them in the factory! I have a Sealey spotwelder and it is fine for doing things like rear valance's on Mini's, but i always seam weld the sills even if i have used the spot welder to give the "original" look. I think this would be twice as important with your soft top!

My spot welder is a proper trade bodywork unit and not a cheap Machine Mart type Chineese import. It has no problem with 14/16 gauge chassis thickness.
Only limitation is the reach of arms (I've just got two sets) and weigh of unit as it's very heavy.

I've been thinking since posting my original message. People might have to trim repair panels to fit - but I don't have anything to trim to !

I'm going, again, to have to think carefully. I'm relucatant to scrap a car, no mater how bad, if there is a chance of it being saved but everytime I start to develop and idea of rebuilding I hit another problem.

Paul Humphries

[WPR678B]

Don't give up! I wasn't insulting your spotwelder by the way! The one i have is a very heavy duty type (and it is heavy!) and will happily do 14 + 16 swg aswell, but on the sills i always weld the seam with the mig to add strength, but it also helps prevent the ingress of moisture into the seam from the underside! Personally i would weld braces in the door shuts (or if you are replacing the doors anyway, weld the doors shut!) and support the middle of the centre crossmember and start from the propshaft tunnel and work outwards so at least you have a datum. Once the new floor pans are in on one side, you can start on the sills etc and when one side is done then you can start the other! I find that approx 25mm run at the top and bottom of the door shut is usually fine and is easy to clean off when you "cut her open!!"

[paulhumphries]

Don't give up! I wasn't insulting your spotwelder by the way!

No offence taken. I was just making it clear I have a decent unit and not a DIY type.

The way the car is at present there is absolutley no strength in centre section.
Sills and floors have almost disappeared so the only thing which is stopping front and rear from seperating is the tunnel !
I made the mistake of opening the drivers door and now it won't close as the body sagged instantly. Jacking up under the centre crossmeber does nothing as it's not attached to sills any more. With the door open if you lean on the B post then it just goes down.
I doubt there are many cars in similar state the owners haven't, like me, thought that it might be beyond repair.

At the moment all I intend definatley doing is totally dismantling every nut & bolt off the bodyshell.
That way at least some of the stresses caused by components and weight will be removed.
If in the end it turns out scrap at least it'll be easier to get rid of shell

Paul Humphries.

[WPR678B]

I have just seen your thread with the pictures of the convertible! What i said earlier about don't give up ...............

[chickenjohn]

Paul, I think your idea is a good one- its possible to buy half floors with the inner sill step in place, you could weld these to the cenre tunnel, and cross member, then build out fron there- new chassis legs, tie plates, inner wings, and before you know it the most amazing resto will have been completed.

BTW the chop top I'm doing seems a doddle in comparison- it even looks quite smart from the top:-

http://homepages.gotadsl.co.uk/~jgm/ekmm/dibble.htm

Which brings me to my next point, Dibble has a name and that gives him a much better chance of survival. He was called Dibble by Gill his previous owner and thats what we are calling him. A name implies personality and some attachment.

You need to give your car a name- My theory is that Ray can't bring himself to scrap the "Rotten Raymobile" because it has a name;), same with Lee and his rusty 2-door "Dorris".;)

Names are often derived from the number plate letters, so how about "fillet" because he needs to be gutted or is allready full of filler! ;)

Or Felicity , or Faith because you're going to need it and the resto may involve praying! ;)

[chickenjohn]

Fitzgerald or Felicity! ;)

[chickenjohn]

Ferris, as in Ferris(ferrous) Oxide (chemical name for rust!) ;)

[paulhumphries]

I always like the "underdog" and tend to go for projects that aren't really viable as I like the challenge.
I'll be honest and admit often they end up getting broken and either used in restoring another vehicle or passed onto other people.
Either way it's better than simply taking the complete car to the local scrap yard - which was probably the option before I bought them.
The way I look at is as an interest like any other. If you support a football team then a season ticket or even paying to watch each game costs money. A lot of people go out and think nothing of spending £50 in a night on drinks etc. A "good" holiday abroad is another aspect other people spend lots of money where I don't.
Holidays, smoking, drinking, betting, sports, etc are all thinks other people spend money on that add up to quiet a bit overall yet the same people ask how can I afford to buy so may old cars when I'm early retired. Answer is I don't indulge in other spending (My wife has holidays with our daughter but I stay at home to look after our cats and dog, I've never placed a bet in my life, I stopped smoking 26 years ago, I'm tee total on health ground, etc).
It's a free world and people can do what they want, within reason, to pass their time on it and my passion is things mechanical.

Getting back to the plot - I still fancy the challenge of trying to save my convertible. If I managed it then it'd be the nearest I've get to a new bodyshell as there would be very little of original left

Today, if I feel well enough (I'm early retired on health grounds but that also means I'm ill a lot of the time), I intend dragging the car from under the car port and removing wings, front panel, doors, bumpers and bootlid. The car is already quite stripped so all that would be left is the mechanical parts.
I'm awaiting a new ram for my engine crane and when that comes the engine & box will be removed.
Then will be "crunch" time - maybe quite literally
The aspect that really bothers me is the damged bulkhead. If this can be repaired then I'll progress onto making a jig to support suspension etc in correct alignment.

Being early retired means limited funds so I've already decided what things I intend selling to raise monies to buy repair panels.
This dictates that I have to get other things in order first so they can be sold and create storage space.
The state of the little Morris is such I'm seriously considering cutting it in half to reduce space in a lock-up and avoid twisting what is left of any structure.


It's a very long time since I gave a car a name. The first was a 1968 Reliant Regal Supervan III called Maximillian Pikestaff.

Paul Humphries.

[Kevin]

Maximillian Pikestaff

Well thats quite a name to live upto

[paulhumphries]

Maximillian Pikestaff

Well thats quite a name to live upto

No idea where the name came from - my wife decided to call it that.
It was red so I think it somewhere along the lines of The Red Max that got extended.
She reads a lot so I suspect it was a character in a (childrens ?) book but a Google search turns up nothing.

Now days she just refers to them as piles of old junk !

Actually I need to have a sort out, and like I said sell them to raise funds.
Besides the convertible I've a Chrysler Neon, Aixam 500, Microcar RJ125, Daihatsu Fourtrak, Austin A35 and Jeep CJ-5 as well as Honda Stream trike, Honda CB92 Benly, Honda CB400A Auto and Vespa ET4.
Thats 7 cars and 4 bikes a little too many but far less than in the past.

The Daihatsu is donating it's engine for the Jeep ( previously was going to sell Jeep but am too fond of it), and the Aixam & Microcar as well Honda Steam & Vespa sold.
I'm reluctant to sell A35 as I have a soft spot for them as my first car was an A30 but expect as soon as I get a Morris Minor on the road things will chnage ;-)

Paul Humphries.